Issues with my Alpina

S

SamUK

Member
What should i do?

My Alpina has covered 170k, feels little sluggish, however the engine is smooth and vanos is not noisy. Feels like engines been rebuilt at some point, also been told the head gaskit may need doing soon?

I was booked into CPC Monday - but decide to hit that over the head, as i cant seem to get any answers or anyone to discuss my issues with on the phone!

Someone on the Alpina register suggested a compression test on the cylinders? or maf o2 sensor etc..?

So

Called PMW

£102 for a code check using Auto logic + Visual Check
£175 for a cylinder compression test

Called BMW direct:

£90 for 1 hour diagnostics
£160 for compression check if needed


Not sure what to do...as this looks like it will be a VERY costly exercice for me...

Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
I'd spend some money on petrol , drive to a forum member who has a Alpina & is nice enough to let you try his car out & vice versa . Direct comparison from 2 Alpina owners worth more than a compression test in my book
More enjoyable & most likely far more useful
I had half hour in Number5s a few weeks back & found it different than 6cyl Si or 3.2 ///Ms
Maybe you have just got used to its almost laid back powerband throughout the rev range
 
Head gaskets either need replacement or not , if they say it may need doing soon they either don't have a clue or are prepping you for a top end strip down .
As mr Wilks says , try someone else's first , I used to complain about an audi s4 I'd spent a fortune on feeling slow after driving it for 90k miles , mate took it up the road and called me stupid and couldn't believe how fast it was !
 
Why not use another respected independent - it's based on the BMW engine so finding one shouldn't be a problem.

A compression test sounds a great idea to check on the health of your engine and a good place to start.
 
Had a compression test a couple of years back on mine - its at 105k now. Still runs smoothly, no issues with HG or otherwise.
You're welcome to do a comparison Sam, but not sure where you live?
 
If it feels sluggish because it's not revving freely, it could be the oil - when I picked up #320 she was filled with 10w60, once I changed to 0w30 she revved much easier.

Alpina recommended 0w30 for the engine but say that you can use other grades up to 10w60 if oil usage becomes an issue
 
OBD2 code reader's can be had cheaply from Ebay,chinese no doubt,but would pay for themselves easily in saved diagnostic cost.Think mine was under £20 and proved "useful" during my Lotus ownership!!
 
PerryGunn said:
If it feels sluggish because it's not revving freely, it could be the oil - when I picked up #320 she was filled with 10w60, once I changed to 0w30 she revved much easier.

Alpina recommended 0w30 for the engine but say that you can use other grades up to 10w60 if oil usage becomes an issue
Click to expand...

Alpina now recommend 10w60, Perry. There's a document I loaded up previously (will look for it later) from Alpina that states for the 3.4 engine they now recommend 10w60 not 00w30. Sytners also previously recommended it for high mileage engines - I moved mine to 10w60 a few years back when I hit 80k.

EDIT: here you go:

3AEC3EAA-A9CB-464C-89D6-756F05299C58_zpsqucacgaz.jpg
 
I've seen that before Mark but when I queried it with Sytner they explained to me that the document means

Alpina recommend 0w30 for all 6-cylinder engines, M52-series or later which includes the Roadster S engine (hence the under-bonnet sticker)

Alpina also recommend the use of TWS 10w60 for the listed models (which includes the Roadster S)

They said that Alpina support the use of either grade of oil with the thicker oil being particularly suitable for higher-mileage engines or engines that exhibit excessive oil consumption. They added that if the owner didn't express a preference they would now use 10w60 at a service as the majority of B3S engines consume more oil as they get older/higher mileage
 
Hmm. Appears they've changed their tune - when I asked, I was told that whilst it had always been Sytner's policy to recommend 10w60 for high mileage roadsters, when the document came out they said that they were now recommending it for all roadster engines in line with Alpina's recommendations and not just high mileage/excessive consumption ones. I had questioned which oil was best after a discussion with Ade, then with the Sytner's service lead, after I had already switched to 10w60 on their recommendation.

Having said that, I don't think I would switch back. I've had no issues with excessive consumption, engine performs as well as it always has, and have not seen any difference in mpg.
 
markeg said:
Hmm. Appears they've changed their tune - when I asked, I was told that whilst it had always been Sytner's policy to recommend 10w60 for high mileage roadsters, when the document came out they said that they were now recommending it for all roadster engines in line with Alpina's recommendations and not just high mileage/excessive consumption ones. I had questioned which oil was best after a discussion with Ade, then with the Sytner's service lead, after I had already switched to 10w60 on their recommendation.

Having said that, I don't think I would switch back. I've had no issues with excessive consumption, engine performs as well as it always has, and have not seen any difference in mpg.
Click to expand...
Annoying when two people ask the same question and get different answers :( although it's possible that the person I spoke to was quoting the old line on oil. I think it's the 'We recommend also...' line that causes the confusion as it implies that 10w60 is an alternative oil for the cars in the list, if it read 'For the following cars we recommend...' then there'd be no confusion - I know you speak German so is it less ambiguous in the German text?

I had a similar discussion with Ade and his opinion was that 10w60 was a bit thick for the oil pathways in the B3s engine hence why, because of his high oil consumption issues, he had discussions with people who really 'know their oil' and settled on something around 5w40 (IIRC it was a mix of a couple of grades) as a good compromise.

#320's tucked away for the winter now but once I'm back from holiday I think I'll send an email to Axel Rimpler to see if he can clarify Alpina's recommendation.
 
OP this isn't actually an issue really the cars done 170k!!! its done very very very well!! its time for an engine refresh tbh. how many times do you see s54s going this far?? i would do a complete rebuild if compression results are low, which i expect them to be at this much use, very very respectable mileage for this type of engine.
 
PerryGunn said:
..I think it's the 'We recommend also...' line that causes the confusion as it implies that 10w60 is an alternative oil for the cars in the list, if it read 'For the following cars we recommend...' then there'd be no confusion - I know you speak German so is it less ambiguous in the German text?
Click to expand...

Usually I would say yes, as German is pretty unambiguous. However in this case, the document doesn't state you must use this grade of oil, but rather that the following grade is recommend for this engine. Then the last line is the cop-out - "Grundsatzlich gilt: es durfen...." which I read as "Basically, you can also use the oil that BMW recommend".

Beedub said:
OP this isn't actually an issue really the cars done 170k!!! its done very very very well!! its time for an engine refresh tbh. how many times do you see s54s going this far?? i would do a complete rebuild if compression results are low, which i expect them to be at this much use, very very respectable mileage for this type of engine.
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There are a few high milers on the Alpina forum, and those have had an engine rebuild. Usually this was triggered by either excessive oil consumption or the HG failure. 170k is pretty good going, especially if it hasn't had a HG replacement which tends to happen around the 80k mark on these engines - mine is at 105k and hasn't needed the HG replacement yet, but I keep an eye on the compression numbers. I would recommend anyone with an Alpina getting the compression checked when they hit 80k plus.

BTW Sam, the quotes you are getting for reading cylinder compression seem a bit high. I would check with a competent local indy, it should be about an hours work, if that.
 
How can they recommend 2 completely different grades of oil?
Surely every grade inbetween those two would be suitable also?
 
Nictrix said:
How can they recommend 2 completely different grades of oil?
Surely every grade inbetween those two would be suitable also?
Click to expand...

Sounds like they fitted a Transit engine in those Alpinas :oops: you can stick any old oil in those as well :D
 
Be fair though, nothing's as fast as a Transit with a copy of The Sun on top of the dash and a proper WVM at the wheel...
 
PerryGunn said:
markeg said:
Hmm. Appears they've changed their tune - when I asked, I was told that whilst it had always been Sytner's policy to recommend 10w60 for high mileage roadsters, when the document came out they said that they were now recommending it for all roadster engines in line with Alpina's recommendations and not just high mileage/excessive consumption ones. I had questioned which oil was best after a discussion with Ade, then with the Sytner's service lead, after I had already switched to 10w60 on their recommendation.

Having said that, I don't think I would switch back. I've had no issues with excessive consumption, engine performs as well as it always has, and have not seen any difference in mpg.
Click to expand...
Annoying when two people ask the same question and get different answers :( although it's possible that the person I spoke to was quoting the old line on oil. I think it's the 'We recommend also...' line that causes the confusion as it implies that 10w60 is an alternative oil for the cars in the list, if it read 'For the following cars we recommend...' then there'd be no confusion - I know you speak German so is it less ambiguous in the German text?

I had a similar discussion with Ade and his opinion was that 10w60 was a bit thick for the oil pathways in the B3s engine hence why, because of his high oil consumption issues, he had discussions with people who really 'know their oil' and settled on something around 5w40 (IIRC it was a mix of a couple of grades) as a good compromise.

#320's tucked away for the winter now but once I'm back from holiday I think I'll send an email to Axel Rimpler to see if he can clarify Alpina's recommendation.
Click to expand...

Well I found time to send Axel an email before I went on holiday and got home to find that I'd received the reply quoted below - in short it looks like ALPINA are happy for either grade of oil to be used and leave the customer to decide which is the most appropriate for their engine.

In a reply to my email Axel Rimpler said:
Dear Mr. Gunn,

thank you very much for your e-mail.

We recommend Longlife 04 specification for the BMW ALPINA B3 S and BMW ALPINA Roadster S or the special 10W-60 oil:
Castrol Edge Professional1) SAE 10W-60 Castrol Limited
Castrol EDGE SAE 10W-60 Castrol Limited

For the longlife 04, we recommend:
Castrol Edge Professional LL04 SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited

Best regards

Axel Rimpler
Leiter Produktion / Head of Production
Leiter Kundendienst / Head of Customer Service
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALPINA Burkard Bovensiepen GmbH + Co. KG
Alpenstraße 35-37
D - 86807 Buchloe
Click to expand...

So, to me at least, it looks like Sytner were pretty accurate when they said
In an earlier post I said:
that Alpina support the use of either grade of oil with the thicker oil being particularly suitable for higher-mileage engines or engines that exhibit excessive oil consumption. They added that if the owner didn't express a preference they would now use 10w60 at a service as the majority of B3S engines consume more oil as they get older/higher mileage
Click to expand...
 
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