Is it possible to steal a modern day car...
- Thread starter Zed_Steve
- Start date
My wife locked the keys in the back of her E46 Touring while away working. The RAC man uses a long wire to pop the bonnet open through the door seal. After this he opened the fuse box and eventially started the engine using a number of wire links. The doors also unlocked at this point.
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Update from a horses mouth so to speak: I recently caught up with an old mate who works for insurance companies tracing stolen cars and I asked him about this. Yes it's well established that software is being used to crack keyless entry or start systems in particular. One 'large' Police force has identified over 200 examples of BMW thefts happening without keys using this method. Some BMWs have a 'glitch' which is being exploited, BMW officially deny this and are apparently very pi55y that after spending millions on security R&D two spotty geeks with a laptop can beat it! Despite denials BMW are patching software when affected cars come in for service (probably without telling owners specifically what software updates have been done). This is great.... unless your car isn't due a service for a year or two :thumbsdown:
...and used car buyers beware. Bent users of hire, loan and lease cars are introducing extra keys to the vehicle (process varies according to make) and fitting trackers. Months later after the car has been moved on to a new owner they activate 'their' tracker at a time/place to suit them and........ voilà, an empty parking space.
Oh and the inside word is Land/Range Rovers are just about the most likely thing to get nicked and never seen again either ending up abroad and/or in pieces, old ones being worth far more as parts.
..... and there is an easy method to locate BMW (and other OEM) trackers which was not divulged, but the advice if you love your motor is to fit a second (non - OEM) tracker, this has so far fooled the thieves since they stop looking once they find the makers one.
Scary but interesting chat.
...and used car buyers beware. Bent users of hire, loan and lease cars are introducing extra keys to the vehicle (process varies according to make) and fitting trackers. Months later after the car has been moved on to a new owner they activate 'their' tracker at a time/place to suit them and........ voilà, an empty parking space.
Oh and the inside word is Land/Range Rovers are just about the most likely thing to get nicked and never seen again either ending up abroad and/or in pieces, old ones being worth far more as parts.
..... and there is an easy method to locate BMW (and other OEM) trackers which was not divulged, but the advice if you love your motor is to fit a second (non - OEM) tracker, this has so far fooled the thieves since they stop looking once they find the makers one.
Scary but interesting chat.
The problem is the embedded industry has been just that for some time: it largely ignores the outside world. I write very fault-tolerant code but until recently it only needed to consider internal faults - components going wrong, strange answers popping out of a logical sequence of instructions etc. As technology moves on those embedded systems now need to talk to non-embedded ones - laptops and phones running quite crappy code (from a point of view of reliability) so security-holes are introduced. It's taking the embedded industry a long time to catch up with some standard server security methods like virtual machines, firewalls etc being built into systems. As an added bonus, the more complicated the software gets, the more eager the script-kiddies get to be the one to crack it.
i still think its safe to say that the days of some crack head thinking he can smash a window and jump a car are gone.
however vaunarable keys are today they are still making imporvements, i had a case at work were someone claimed their vehicle was stolen without the keys, he confirmed he still had both of them. as an insurance company we can send they keys of to a nice chap who has spent that last 25 years simply looking at car keys, even just looking at a key he can tell us how many times its been used and even what milage should be on the vehicle. the new method of this is now the plug the key into a computer and the key tells you how many times its been used, what the last recorded milage was and the date and time of its use! safe to safe, we knew it was him who crashed the car and it had not in fact been stolen ;-)
however vaunarable keys are today they are still making imporvements, i had a case at work were someone claimed their vehicle was stolen without the keys, he confirmed he still had both of them. as an insurance company we can send they keys of to a nice chap who has spent that last 25 years simply looking at car keys, even just looking at a key he can tell us how many times its been used and even what milage should be on the vehicle. the new method of this is now the plug the key into a computer and the key tells you how many times its been used, what the last recorded milage was and the date and time of its use! safe to safe, we knew it was him who crashed the car and it had not in fact been stolen ;-)
Nova2k7 said:
I had my 335 nicked twice, when both keys were still safely in my house, or on my person.
How you ask? fuckwit at the dealer ordering replacement keys for a professional gang.
Was in the news for Peterborough four years back and happened for about 10 customers from the same dealer.
Not saying that's what happened here, but you never know.
I'd still say pics of keys, or GTFO tho
sk93 said:I had my 335 nicked twice, when both keys were still safely in my house, or on my person.
How you ask? fuckwit at the dealer ordering replacement keys for a professional gang.
Was in the news for Peterborough four years back and happened for about 10 customers from the same dealer.
Not saying that's what happened here, but you never know.
I'd still say pics of keys, or GTFO tho
I saw that in a film once... IIRC it ended up with a dog crapping Mercedes keys
BMWZ4MC said:sk93 said:I had my 335 nicked twice, when both keys were still safely in my house, or on my person.
How you ask? fuckwit at the dealer ordering replacement keys for a professional gang.
Was in the news for Peterborough four years back and happened for about 10 customers from the same dealer.
Not saying that's what happened here, but you never know.
I'd still say pics of keys, or GTFO tho
I saw that in a film once... IIRC it ended up with a dog crapping Mercedes keys
This is also true.. however, I believe in that film, they drove the cars across town.
In my case, they simply drove it into a truck decalled with the BMW group logos..
sk93 said:BMWZ4MC said:sk93 said:I had my 335 nicked twice, when both keys were still safely in my house, or on my person.
How you ask? fuckwit at the dealer ordering replacement keys for a professional gang.
Was in the news for Peterborough four years back and happened for about 10 customers from the same dealer.
Not saying that's what happened here, but you never know.
I'd still say pics of keys, or GTFO tho
I saw that in a film once... IIRC it ended up with a dog crapping Mercedes keys
This is also true.. however, I believe in that film, they drove the cars across town.
In my case, they simply drove it into a truck decalled with the BMW group logos..
I expect they missed out the extra step involving canine giblets too...
On the M3 Cutters forum a few years back, there was a post about M3s and other RWD performance cars being stolen from rail station car parks...
The gang would rock up with a fully-marked, genuine looking recovery truck, all in hi-vis jackets with phone numbers on van etc, clearly taking the 'we look like we're in a position of authority, noone will question us' stance.
They would simply tow away the cars they wanted - if the tilt alarm goes off, "sorry, it happens a lot in our job, but this guy has no valid ticket" or whatever, so "his car is being impounded". Station staff don't give a damn, almost better for them if the driver has 'parked illegally'.
In the end, police and CCTV realised what was happening - recommended drivers of RWD cars parked boot first against walls.
Apparently, the problem simply disapeared - the gang's recovery truck could only TOW cars by lifting two of the wheels. Boot-in, they had to lift by the front wheels, meaning the rear either wouldn't move or would be uncontrollable in tow and fall off.
Urban myth?
Maybe, but I ALWAYS park boot-in now... :?
Si
The gang would rock up with a fully-marked, genuine looking recovery truck, all in hi-vis jackets with phone numbers on van etc, clearly taking the 'we look like we're in a position of authority, noone will question us' stance.
They would simply tow away the cars they wanted - if the tilt alarm goes off, "sorry, it happens a lot in our job, but this guy has no valid ticket" or whatever, so "his car is being impounded". Station staff don't give a damn, almost better for them if the driver has 'parked illegally'.
In the end, police and CCTV realised what was happening - recommended drivers of RWD cars parked boot first against walls.
Apparently, the problem simply disapeared - the gang's recovery truck could only TOW cars by lifting two of the wheels. Boot-in, they had to lift by the front wheels, meaning the rear either wouldn't move or would be uncontrollable in tow and fall off.
Urban myth?
Maybe, but I ALWAYS park boot-in now... :?
Si
Just to reopen this thread with a recent story from a friend
In short he bought a 2010 530D from a mutual friend who had originally purchased BMW assist with the car, but not registered the service with BMW. From laziness of the seller and incompetence from the dealer he had bought it from the new owner was able to register BMW Assist in his name which then allows him to 1. Open the car from his iPhone remotley 2. Turn on Aircon 3. Upload maps/directions to onboard sat nav to name a few.
Series of events
I picked up Steve’s car still in Steve’s name/ private plates and hadn’t even sent the V5 back. Steve just signed it and left it to me to sort out.
When I got home I was looking on BMW forums etc and came across some info on BMW Assist called “Connected Drive”
Went to BMW connected drive website and noted that you had to fill an online form (says 4 years free blah blah so thought may as well try)
I gave my name, address, mobile number, VIN and registration (had not even been to DVLA to swap to my plates yet so still had Steve’s plates on) and submitted the form
About 2 days later I got 2 text messages giving my username and password which I could then user to download and use the iPhone app.
From what I gather on the forums this process should be done as part of the post sales process and should therefore be done by the dealer in the first instance for the customer. As the car was originally owned by the BMW dealership (MD’s of dealers car probably) it never got activated at that time. Steve also didn’t realise he needed to register anything so he didn’t do it either, hence I still have 4 years free
The key information given was the VIN and registration details all of which could have been obtained from the outside of the car. Yes the above is a fluke as the orginal owner had never registered the Assist service and it was a friend to friend sale, but it does make you think what is possible
In short he bought a 2010 530D from a mutual friend who had originally purchased BMW assist with the car, but not registered the service with BMW. From laziness of the seller and incompetence from the dealer he had bought it from the new owner was able to register BMW Assist in his name which then allows him to 1. Open the car from his iPhone remotley 2. Turn on Aircon 3. Upload maps/directions to onboard sat nav to name a few.
Series of events
I picked up Steve’s car still in Steve’s name/ private plates and hadn’t even sent the V5 back. Steve just signed it and left it to me to sort out.
When I got home I was looking on BMW forums etc and came across some info on BMW Assist called “Connected Drive”
Went to BMW connected drive website and noted that you had to fill an online form (says 4 years free blah blah so thought may as well try)
I gave my name, address, mobile number, VIN and registration (had not even been to DVLA to swap to my plates yet so still had Steve’s plates on) and submitted the form
About 2 days later I got 2 text messages giving my username and password which I could then user to download and use the iPhone app.
From what I gather on the forums this process should be done as part of the post sales process and should therefore be done by the dealer in the first instance for the customer. As the car was originally owned by the BMW dealership (MD’s of dealers car probably) it never got activated at that time. Steve also didn’t realise he needed to register anything so he didn’t do it either, hence I still have 4 years free
The key information given was the VIN and registration details all of which could have been obtained from the outside of the car. Yes the above is a fluke as the orginal owner had never registered the Assist service and it was a friend to friend sale, but it does make you think what is possible
