Introduction and a question: Z4C or Z4CM?

[NRCw]

Hi all!

First of all a little disclaimer: I'm Dutch, so I might mix British and American English. Please don't feel offended. Second, if I start typing, there's basically no end. So if you like reading, read along. If you're interested in just sharing your thoughts regarding the topic's question, that's awesome too!

The current situation
As the title might suggest, I haven't bought a Z yet. However, after carefully (over)thinking and planning on what I should get as a replacement for my current car, I came to the conclusion that my best choice would probably be an E86. Our daily is a company car (a Corsa that isn't worth mentioning from this point on, but I will get a 2021 Polo in a week or three, whilst waiting for my 2022 Polo to arrive), and we have an R53 MINI as our second/weekend car. Tons of fun! My plan is to get a Z either to replace the R53 or in addition to it, after we moved to our new house (which will be next year).

From Mercedes-Benz to BMW
I grew up with Benzes and I still love them. My dad always drove a Mercedes-Benz: A W123 S123, S124, S210, S211, S203, and W220. The last one being a 2005 S55 AMG with the insane M113K engine. I also had the privilege to drive a W204 C63 performance package for a week some years ago. Man have I smiled a lot during that week! And boy, do I miss those V8s…
Now, where did the love for BMW start? Well, a friend of mine picked me up in his brother's E46 M3 convertible some 16 years ago. The rasp from that S54 engine is just something else. My wallet didn't allow me to get myself a proper AMG when we needed a second car next to our MINI, and a 'regular' non-M BMW suited my driving style better than a comparable Mercedes. That's why me and my wife ended up getting an E46 320i Touring M-sport, finished in Stratusgrau over black leather with a manual transmission. I loved that wagon and still miss it occasionally. It may only have had 170 horses, but that straight six souplesse is something I adored.
A good friend of mine is a complete BMW enthusiast too, and its because of him I got to further experience what the brand and Freude am Fahren was all about. They've had an F11 530d Touring and E89 2.3i at the time, and later two E91s. Now there's an E24 635CSi and E30 325i convertible. Utter driving machines with wonderful engines!

Porsches…?
Besides AMGs and BMWs, I also love Porsche and the cars they make. To me, the 911 shape is something that's mesmerising. A couple of friends recently got (and sometimes sold) various Porsches: a 986 Boxster S, 987.1 Cayman S, 987.2 Boxster, 997.1 Carrera, 996 Turbo. Especially the 987 and 996 grabbed my attention. Having read about potential high maintenance costs, and seeing prices for 'the right' 987 (.1 or .2) or 996 C2, I don't think getting one of those is possible and/or wise for the foreseeable future. It's also the somewhat boring choice, in a way.

Z!
The E86 Z4 coupe is one of my favourite designs ever from BMW. From the moment I saw it on the road, I liked the sharp, yet smooth lines. The relative low weight, combined with a natural aspirated straight six and manual gearbox, make it the perfect package for what I look for in of a weekend toy. I prefer it over an SLK 55 AMG because that's heavier and has an automatic. I like the Cayman, but fear some possible engine troubles, and find the Z4 just better looking. Having seen/read people's experiences, it seems the Cayman can be a little too good/well balanced, where the Z4 brings a raw edge and thus more excitement.

So at this point, I'm looking into all information I can get regarding the E86. One of the things I'm wondering: If a Z4MC appears to be within budget, should I go for it or not? Does it bring more joy despite it being heavier? How do running costs compare? I don't mind road tax and insurance differences. I love the N52B30 engine (and the decent MPG is a nice plus), but the S54 will always be more special. Who's driven both and likes to elaborate on those experiences?

Extra note: If you would like to see my MINI and the E46 I used to own, here's my Instagram page.

 

[Mr Tidy]

Welcome to the forum.

I just hope you don't mind a lengthy reply!

My Dad always rated Mercedes cars but never owned one, but that rubbed off on me and many years ago I had a W123 280e, then a manual 190e 2.0 litre and lastly a W202 C280 Sport. I grew up with RWD cars but always preferred manual gearboxes, and the W202 was a big disappointment. The suspension was very stiff and crashy so the ride was poor and there didn't seem to be any handling benefit.

So I haven't had another and in 2005 I discovered BMW after my other half bought a new Mini in 2003. At the time I was doing business miles with a car allowance so I got an E46 Compact 320td and replaced it in 2008 with a 123d. Then in 2014 I was no longer doing business mileage so I bought my first E86 that I foolishly sold in 2016 and then bought another which I had until I replaced it in 2019 with my MC. Meanwhile I had an E46 325ti Compact followed by an E91 325i then an E90 330i as daily drivers.

I can't comment on Porsches as I've never driven one but a mate bought a Boxster S recently and loves it so hopefully I'll be able to try that soon.

But getting onto E86s specifically I've always thought the 3.0Si was 80% of an M for 50% of the price (in the UK anyway) and having had both I still think that is the case. But I wouldn't say the 3.0Si is particularly raw to drive, although the M definitely is!

Running costs are in a different league for the M as parts like brakes, etc. attract the "M" tax, and every other service (the Inspection 1 and 2 services) which it should have every 4 years, or sooner if doing higher mileage, requires the valve clearances to be checked and adjusted if required using shims. Whereas the 3.0Si has hydraulic lifters. M engines can also suffer from worn crank rod bearing shells at higher mileages. I had mine replaced at 78K miles and they didn't look too pretty! New shells and engine mounts cost £1,000 at an Independent BMW specialist, but it's a job that won't need doing again for years. Not least because I always get it up to temperature up before I give it the beans, and driving them hard when not properly warm is likely to cause the shells to wear. As my car had 7 previous keepers I figured it likely at least one had probably caned it from cold - especially as the first one was BMW UK!



As you say the N52 is a great engine, but an S54 up towards the red line is something so special! Anyway I went into M ownership knowing it was going to cost a lot more but prepared to pay that extra 50% on price for the extra 20% of the drive, and really don't regret it.

As a daily driver I'd probably pick a 3.0Si but my E86s have only ever been weekend cars and the M just feels more special as soon as I start the engine. Fuel wise I'd get about 33mpg in my Sis and 26/27 in the M so not a huge difference.

Hope you made it to the end. :lol:

 

[NRCw]

I just hope you don't mind a lengthy reply!

Not at all! Lovely read, and thanks for your elaborative thoughts. Good to know you're getting 80% experience for 50% of the price! That sounds like the best deal for me at this point. If I end up with a 3.0Si, I can always trade it in/sell it for an M if I feel like it (… and both wallet and wife approve ). At the moment, prices in The Netherlands and Germany are as following:
Z4MR €27k and up
Z4MC €37k and up
Z4C €16k and up

So an Z4MR would be a third option to consider, but it's the coupe's lines that make my heart skip a beat.

When looking at my mileage the last 4 months with the MINI, it has been around 2.000km and includes a 900+ km road trip to Germany. This means I'll be doing around 6.000km (~3750 miles) annually. If I end up keeping my MINI, this will only get even lower.

And for fun, here's the MINI visiting Paris:

 

[Mr Tidy]

So an Z4MR would be a third option to consider, but it's the coupe's lines that make my heart skip a beat.

In over 40 years I've never had, or wanted, a convertible of any description so for me it just had to be a Coupe as I loved the shape, and when I bought my first one an M was way over budget.

And after a 123d a Z4 Coupe felt special just sitting in it, and the 3 litre engine didn't disappoint. But I suppose like anything you start to get used to it so when an M was advertised 5 years later that I could just about afford it had to be bought!

I know what you mean about Minis as my then OH had an R50 One that she replaced with an R56 Cooper and they are great fun, but I think you'd find a 3 litre Coupe a completely different experience.

And as you say if you bought one of those and found you wanted that extra M factor you could always move on to an MR or MC.

Prices in Europe make me feel lucky to live in the UK, anyway good luck whatever you decide to buy.

 

[buzyg]

As this sounds like a car for the weekend and one that you can afford there is only one answer. Go for the MC. Having not run any other Z4 I don't appreciate the different running cost. As a pensioner these days I fine the running cost pretty reasonable for so much fun. Tax is starting to wind me up a bit as the government encourages us to abandon our petrol toys though. :wink:

Basically go for the ///M if funds allow.

 

[Mr Tidy]

Basically go for the ///M if funds allow.

You're a bad influence, but in a good way.

TBH if I could have afforded an M first time round I probably would have got one. But having had 3.0Sis possibly made me appreciate my M more!

 

[Pondy]

4MR €27k and up
Z4MC €37k and up
Z4C €16k and up

Somewhere in the middle is the Alpina Roadster S. Another option if you want a soft top?
All the fun of an E85 MR with more exclusivity and lower running costs.
Just a thought.

 

[NRCw]

Somewhere in the middle is the Alpina Roadster S

I like this suggestion! I'll look into the Alpina 8)

 

[idej_z4]

Having owned an E86si, driven an ///M several times and now own an E85si I would pick the roadster every time. The Coupe is stunning to look at, but you don't look at it when you're sitting in the car. The extra claimed stiffness is negligible to most road drivers. If it's a weekend toy then there is nothing better than getting the roof down and feeling the freedom of a roadster, with all the benefits you listed above (engine, manual etc etc). For me, the costs of the ///M do start to stack up, everything is practically double the price and having driven one a few times, (E86) as much as its definitely a different animal, it didn't blow my mind

Would I have an ///M if I wasn't a tight Yorkshireman and had more disposable cash, probably, but not because I thought it was 'so' much more of a car than the 3.0si, mainly because of its unique specialness - but it would have to be a roadster.

 

[tomscott]

Being one of the few thats gone from Z4MC to Z4MR I have a few thoughts that might be worth considering.

Back in the day I was a coupe only person wouldn't have considered a roadster but how wrong I was. I sold the Z4MC to go travelling and when I got back I bought a Boxster S, I wasn't really all that keen on the Boxster, its just too good. The Z4M just makes you feel alive, I found the Boxster quite boring but what I loved was the top down. They dont look as good as coupes but the whole experience just revolves around it, the noise you get from the induction and engine/exhaust is just lost in the coupe. Im a photographer and I only realised how loud my coupe was when I was photographing it while it was driving by.

I test drove the 3.0Si and the Z4MC back to back and the 3.0 just didn't do it for me if im honest, they are definitely 80% the car but that extra 20% is just huge the S54 is a masterpiece and the noise and the way it goes its a no brainer. They are a lot more than 20% the cost to look after but tbh its still cheap compared to the competition.

I bought my Z4MC when I had a couple of years of work under my belt after uni I was 23 and looking for an M3 but the insurance was 3x the price so I ended up with the Z4.

I had the Z4MC for nearly 4 years and absolutely loved it, great looks, fab performance. It really is one of the best looking BMWs that has ever been made imo. The additional stiffness in an already stiff car isnt really something that I would call beneficial on the road and wouldn't be something I would buy the car for. The interior is small and quite boomy, I would go for a lighter interior. Black IMO was quite dark and claustrophobic. I struggled with the interior for the first couple of months it would give me bad headaches with the boomyness but the more I drove I got used to it. I tended to drive it on fun and long journeys so it was more motorway driving that was an annoyance.

I did a lot to the car had H&R springs which made the car look unreal but it was to the detriment of the ride. I had OEM CSLS but on it which also looked awesome, the carbon fibre rear spoiler etc etc looked about as good as it could without adding a carbon roof and the aero skirts.

I loved it to bits and put 25k on it in the 4 years I had it.

A couple of positives to the coupe, its more dynamic to drive simply because the rack in the coupe is faster, in the roadster there is definitely more of a disconnect.

BMW Z4M Coupe, Silver Grey, CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Coupe CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Coupe rear by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Fast forward to 2019 and I bought a forum Z4MR that 2 friends had owned. I couldn't believe the difference really the car just feels more alive, the induction noise is just unreal with the top down which you just dont get in the coupe, you can hear it but its just so much more in the roadster. Back to back you wouldn't notice the difference in stiffness on the road, possibly on a track but not really. The steering like mentioned is something thats quite noticeable if you have driven both but its not like its a detriment. With it being a weekend car for me if its going to be compromised might as well have the roof off option too. The boot is still really impressive for what it is.

The other thing to bare in mind. When I bought my Z4MC it was 5 years old and I bought it from a BMW dealer for 17.5k with 43k miles. To get a similar car now your looking at 26-30k. The Z4MR you can get a similar car for 16-20k so the difference is literally 10k here in the UK. Having already owned the coupe I wasn't really that drawn to buying another and considering the cars are almost identical the Z4MR imo is the better experience and you save 10k just seemed a no brainer to me. They are almost as rare as each other in the UK so that also wouldn't be something that would push my decision. It just so happened that my combo of imola on imola is 1 of 4 cars brought to the UK.

BMW Z4M Roadster, Tatton Park by Tom Scott, on Flickr

BMW Z4M Roadster, Tatton Park by Tom Scott, on Flickr

So ye they are both great cars you cant go wrong with either. The extra savings came in handy I have spent about 6k on mine so far not including the modifications like aero skirts etc. I still have the bearings, engine mounts, engine bolts and Vanos to have done which is probably another 4k. With it being 16 years old they do need money spent and just because its low mileage etc it doesn't mean it doesn't need work doing. The original suspension is also gone in my Z4MR the shocks are doing very little and would like to replace with something more sporty as it is the weak point of the Z4Ms.

Something I would urge is go have a go in both. I have really enjoyed my time in both and dont have a favourite both have pros and cons the Coupe is gorgeous and I would always look back, not so much in the roady. The experience behind the wheel in the roadster is more involving just because of the roof the noise and experience you get just makes you feel closer to the elements.

The great thing is that neither are particularly expensive. A decent similar age mid mile Porsche 997 911 is 40-50k and they aren't worth 20+k more than the Z4MR. The upgrade path is not clear unless you invest a lot more money.