Yes, it worked fine when i put the top down. when i got to my destination i began to put the top up and it stopped in that exact position. i pulled my car into wet pee’s garage and started doing some research. we then opened the trunk lid with the emergency pull cable and after a long night of pulling apart the trunk interior and trying to locate and identify switches and sensors I made my initial post here. Yesterday, we fiddled with the pump and released pressure to move the two panels up to the windshield as shown in the second picture.
intermittent roof problems
- Thread starter thee89
- Start date
Yes, it worked fine when i put the top down. when i got to my destination i began to put the top up and it stopped in that exact position. i pulled my car into wet pee’s garage and started doing some research. we then opened the trunk lid with the emergency pull cable and after a long night of pulling apart the trunk interior and trying to locate and identify switches and sensors I made my initial post here. Yesterday, we fiddled with the pump and released pressure to move the two panels up to the windshield as shown in the second picture.
Hope you didn't destroy your pump. It's really no playground.
Well, keep an eye on the two hall sensors plugged into the right hydraulic ram of the trunk lid. You have to support the lid with a broomstick and remove the silver clip at the end of the support arm.
To move the arm, the brass valve to the front has to be released.
Remove the zip tie around the hydraulic ram, don't forget to replaced it with a new one later on.
Take photos, take photos, take photos of it's exact position.
Push a tiny screwdriver horizontally between the ram's body and the black hall sensor to push it vertically(!) down.
Have a very close look at the front side (opposite of the wires) of it. Take a very sharp photo of it. If you can see a rusty red/pink line, it has to be replaced. If it's in perfect condition, no cracked housing anywhere, you can remount it. Don't forget the new zip tie around it together with it's plug.
Check the 2nd hall sensor the same way.
Well, keep an eye on the two hall sensors plugged into the right hydraulic ram of the trunk lid. You have to support the lid with a broomstick and remove the silver clip at the end of the support arm.
To move the arm, the brass valve to the front has to be released.
Remove the zip tie around the hydraulic ram, don't forget to replaced it with a new one later on.
Take photos, take photos, take photos of it's exact position.
Push a tiny screwdriver horizontally between the ram's body and the black hall sensor to push it vertically(!) down.
Have a very close look at the front side (opposite of the wires) of it. Take a very sharp photo of it. If you can see a rusty red/pink line, it has to be replaced. If it's in perfect condition, no cracked housing anywhere, you can remount it. Don't forget the new zip tie around it together with it's plug.
Check the 2nd hall sensor the same way.
Thanks for the guidance and my apologies for the redundant posts. it was about ~5am for us having just gotten home from a night of work.
We'll be checking that out tomorrow evening. A few questions we thought of today:
1) The car got bumped into in the rear and recently fixed at a body shop. there was a dent in the rear bumper and trunk lid, honestly not too bad. very low speed crash. how likely could sensor failure be related to the crash? will post pictures soon.
2) do we have to worry about air being in the lines since dismounting them from the pump? is this also the concern for maintaining the position of the ram when reassembling the hose there or is it more about not putting uneven forces on the lift arms, etc.?
3) Is there another way to check proper function of the sensors?
We tried to use a DMM to check continuity of the placement tray hall sensor with and without a steel object placed on the magnetic part of the sensor. I don't remember what the result of this test was, and we also had a complication with our first DMM we used for testing as the battery was dead so it wasn't reading voltages properly. Today I had the realization that this method might not work as my new assumption is that CTM would just detect a change in voltage or resistance, not an open or closed circuit.
Thanks for the correction on the hose end material. Idk why I would have thought they might be plastic lol.
Does anyone a part number or specs for those hose o-rings? I'm plenty familiar with finding small replacement hardware from my experience working on airsoft replicas.
Thanks,
Evan J
We'll be checking that out tomorrow evening. A few questions we thought of today:
1) The car got bumped into in the rear and recently fixed at a body shop. there was a dent in the rear bumper and trunk lid, honestly not too bad. very low speed crash. how likely could sensor failure be related to the crash? will post pictures soon.
2) do we have to worry about air being in the lines since dismounting them from the pump? is this also the concern for maintaining the position of the ram when reassembling the hose there or is it more about not putting uneven forces on the lift arms, etc.?
3) Is there another way to check proper function of the sensors?
We tried to use a DMM to check continuity of the placement tray hall sensor with and without a steel object placed on the magnetic part of the sensor. I don't remember what the result of this test was, and we also had a complication with our first DMM we used for testing as the battery was dead so it wasn't reading voltages properly. Today I had the realization that this method might not work as my new assumption is that CTM would just detect a change in voltage or resistance, not an open or closed circuit.
Thanks for the correction on the hose end material. Idk why I would have thought they might be plastic lol.
Does anyone a part number or specs for those hose o-rings? I'm plenty familiar with finding small replacement hardware from my experience working on airsoft replicas.
Thanks,
Evan J
1) no sensor issue to expect
2) air is not a problem, don't care about it if the oil level is ok
3) 1st choice to check the HS visually as written! rusty = dead, not rusty = ok, issues CAN'T BE MEASURED.
Check unplugged with Ohm meter: 33k static or 133k continously descending without any metal nearby
4) if there is no leakage you don't need new ones NBR70 3.3x1.0
2) air is not a problem, don't care about it if the oil level is ok
3) 1st choice to check the HS visually as written! rusty = dead, not rusty = ok, issues CAN'T BE MEASURED.
Check unplugged with Ohm meter: 33k static or 133k continously descending without any metal nearby
4) if there is no leakage you don't need new ones NBR70 3.3x1.0
To be honest, this is nonsense regarding identifying an issue with it.flybobbie said:
These hall sensors may fail on their magnetic field detection, if there is an issue. Interestingly I've never seen an electrically "dead" hall sensor.
We didn't identify a reproduceable way to measure it's magnetical behaviour up to now. It's easier to just replace both on the right ram with the cheap new ones (E88) than digging around with metals, ohmmeteres or anything else.
Well the battle was lost today.
Found my previous repair had broken, the wires were too small i size, broke at solder joint..
So decided to replace both pairs of wires rear shell Hall sensor and micro switch with some 10amp mains cable..
Then extended new wire down the arms in the trunk.
All worked fine, until i tided it all up.
Now says Roof System!
No faults on the code reader.
I see the front hooks on the top of windshield that lock the roof shell not moving, the cabin roof trim removed.
Only way to get things moving is to disconnect left limited and manually press the right limit.
Rear shell will then move back and lock.
But front not locked.
Round two tomorrow, retreat and regroup, new attack plan.
Found my previous repair had broken, the wires were too small i size, broke at solder joint..
So decided to replace both pairs of wires rear shell Hall sensor and micro switch with some 10amp mains cable..
Then extended new wire down the arms in the trunk.
All worked fine, until i tided it all up.
Now says Roof System!
No faults on the code reader.
I see the front hooks on the top of windshield that lock the roof shell not moving, the cabin roof trim removed.
Only way to get things moving is to disconnect left limited and manually press the right limit.
Rear shell will then move back and lock.
But front not locked.
Round two tomorrow, retreat and regroup, new attack plan.
Use high flexible wires (LIFY 0,25 mm), not thicker ones. There are only 4 mA to support, no nuclear power plant!
And once again check the polarity of the two wires of the hall sensor in the roof shell. It's orientation is important, for the microswitch it doesn't matter.
Don't underestimate that there is a second critical arc horizontally on the inner side of the arms where the wires can also break.
And once again check the polarity of the two wires of the hall sensor in the roof shell. It's orientation is important, for the microswitch it doesn't matter.
Don't underestimate that there is a second critical arc horizontally on the inner side of the arms where the wires can also break.
Yes removed the the guide plate from the lower arm, wondering if something on the bottom bend gone wrong.
But code reader says no breaks.
But it's not driving the latch in the roof to lock it.
The window frame micro clicks, so at this point assuming that is working.
But code reader says no breaks.
But it's not driving the latch in the roof to lock it.
The window frame micro clicks, so at this point assuming that is working.
The front latch is connected by a harness of its own, lying in parrallel to the roof hydraulic harness on the right.flybobbie said:
At the CTM, there are 2 connectors:
1) a 2-pole for the latch motor, directly connected to the CTM
2) a 5-pole small flat plug next to the black 41-pole CTM plug, that connects the two microswitches from the latch motor
Both are working the same way as the typical roof switches: 560 ohms as well as 2.7k ohms. You should check it.
I'm assuming the microswitch in the windshield frame top, tells the motor to rotate cam to latch.
The cam microswitches seem to work, rear shell 2 moves up or down when i press the switches manually.
I need to check if the windshield switch is operating on the obd reader.
The cam microswitches seem to work, rear shell 2 moves up or down when i press the switches manually.
I need to check if the windshield switch is operating on the obd reader.
I wouldn't suggest 0.14 mm2 in an area with heavy movements. That is very tiny and difficult to work with, as it has a higher risk to just tear it.Chippie said:
0.25 mm2 is a minimum in the cars. The OEM take stiffer 0.35 mm2 to 0.50 mm2 for the sensor wires.
I use these ones:
https://www.conrad.de/de/p/tru-components-1567802-litze-lify-1-x-0-25-mm-schwarz-50-m-1567802.html
Not these:
RobbiZ4 said:I wouldn't suggest 0.14 mm2 in an area with heavy movements. That is very tiny and difficult to work with, as it has a higher risk to just tear it.Chippie said:
0.25 mm2 is a minimum in the cars. The OEM take stiffer 0.35 mm2 to 0.50 mm2 for the sensor wires.
I use these ones:
https://www.conrad.de/de/p/tru-components-1567802-litze-lify-1-x-0-25-mm-schwarz-50-m-1567802.html
20220621_091334_cpr.jpg
Not these:
Bild1.jpg
Thanks for that RobbiZ4
I don’t need them yet but with the Zed 11 years old I fear the worst so planning ahead and getting stocked up.
Seen LiFy wire, goes for about £6 metre.
So car roof all sorted now.
Sometimes just chase your tail.
I did at one point pull the Hall sensor and test it.
It was cracked but worked fine.
I tested with 9volt battery in series with multimeter set to 200ma.
Results.
I just placed a craft blade on it, any steel will do.
So i soldered it minus the connector direct to wires and refitted.
So having about 3 different coloured wires on one length.......i ended up getting them crossed
No matter how careful i was i still managed to f u.
(Bit weird i was working next to where we buried the works cat, i asked, "Ollie where have i gone wrong," i imaged he would meow" Crossed wires?")
But all working now.
I also fitted a wire from the boot to cabin to remote release the boot when roof is half open.
I intercepted the grey/green wire (goes to the boot unlock solenoid), popped in a diode, didn't want any power i added going back to any module.
Then passed wire through to cabin.
I can now apply 12volt to wire, plus ground and open the boot at any point in roof operation.
Might even wire it to the cabin boot release button i bought but never wired.
So car roof all sorted now.
Sometimes just chase your tail.
I did at one point pull the Hall sensor and test it.
It was cracked but worked fine.
I tested with 9volt battery in series with multimeter set to 200ma.
Results.
I just placed a craft blade on it, any steel will do.
So i soldered it minus the connector direct to wires and refitted.
So having about 3 different coloured wires on one length.......i ended up getting them crossed
No matter how careful i was i still managed to f u.
(Bit weird i was working next to where we buried the works cat, i asked, "Ollie where have i gone wrong," i imaged he would meow" Crossed wires?")
But all working now.
I also fitted a wire from the boot to cabin to remote release the boot when roof is half open.
I intercepted the grey/green wire (goes to the boot unlock solenoid), popped in a diode, didn't want any power i added going back to any module.
Then passed wire through to cabin.
I can now apply 12volt to wire, plus ground and open the boot at any point in roof operation.
Might even wire it to the cabin boot release button i bought but never wired.
flybobbie said:
The 50m roles LIFY 0.25 mm² from CONRAD cost about 10€ per colour. That is 0,20€ / 20ct per meter.
Well done, congratulations.flybobbie said:
As already written, none of the cracked, rusty and non-working hall sensors I've already replaced had an electrical issue. Nothing can be measured, as the magnetic field is disturbed, which lead to timing failures.flybobbie said: