Inspection Service Query

[mmm-five]

any thoughts on CV19 ?

It’s all internet misinformation, after all I know hundreds of people, and not one has had it

BTW, if we don’t bother checking these ‘just wear’ items, then do we just wait for something to go bang and then send the bill to BTZ461 in New Zealand?

@ BTZ461, how long on average do you keep your M cars, as you seem to go through a lot of them. I’ve only had 3, but put over 100,000 miles on each of them, and all have had shims checked on schedule and never once have I required zero shims...but that’s only according to the engineer/technician doing them...so they could just be lying.

 

[mr wilks]

any thoughts on CV19 ?

It’s all internet misinformation, after all I know hundreds of people, and not one has had it

BTW, if we don’t bother checking these ‘just wear’ items, then do we just wait for something to go bang and then send the bill to BTZ461 in New Zealand?

@ BTZ461, how long on average do you keep your M cars, as you seem to go through a lot of them. I’ve only had 3, but put over 100,000 miles on each of them, and all have had shims checked on schedule and never once have I required zero shims...but that’s only according to the engineer/technician doing them...so they could just be lying.

You have spent enough time around your own & others S54 cars , they are quite unique in their characteristics so you must have developed a ear for them by now :wink: ive had 4 , only 1 of those sounded off & sure enough at Ins2 required adjustment & was how it should sound afterwards , the last ZM i had sounded so good on both cold & warm tickover it was hard to distinguish between my N52 coupe idling next to it .
Granted they don't all sound the same but one needing attention isn't hard to spot if you have some experience around them

 

[BMWZ4MC]

any thoughts on CV19 ?

It’s all internet misinformation, after all I know hundreds of people, and not one has had it

I can go one better - I’m a doctor and I’ve treated hundreds of patients this year and not one has had CV-19. I’m with Donald Trump, it will all be over by Easter
As for S54 shims, over 11 years of ownership during which I’ve undertaken more frequent inspection services than the BMW schedule dictates, I’ve never had zero shims either. I do know several people who’ve had premature S54 cam and follower wear and several others who’ve had engines let go through spinning a shell. I know no one who has had both, so I’ve concluded that one confers immunity for the other.

 

[Angelus666]

Totally agree on the post above here.....some people on recently are acting like these cars are made of rare precious metals that crumble at the slightest rev of the engine. These are £15-20k BMW’s....people worrying about them like they’re old school £150k Italian exotics, I just don’t get it.... :?

Literally all the independent garages I have used in the past have all said not to worry about the S54 engine, it’s one of the most bullet proof ones made, and unless you’re heavily tracking it then you will be fine with sensible maintenance. I have done 9 years across my CSL and MC and they have never ever missed a beat, not even needed an oil top up between services.

 

[mmm-five]

You have spent enough time around your own & others S54 cars , they are quite unique in their characteristics so you must have developed a ear for them by now :wink: ive had 4 , only 1 of those sounded off & sure enough at Ins2 required adjustment & was how it should sound afterwards , the last ZM i had sounded so good on both cold & warm tickover it was hard to distinguish between my N52 coupe idling next to it .
Granted they don't all sound the same but one needing attention isn't hard to spot if you have some experience around them

But that’s part of the problem...I think the car sounds fine before an inspection, but it comes away needing 1-7 shims each time, and doesn’t sound any different when I get it back...but that could be down to the exhaust (or the dealer never actually doing them).

With the S38 in the M5s, you’d know they were getting tighter as the engine became smoother at idle, but that could eat 1L of oil every 2,000 miles. The S54 is much quieter overall, and uses zero oil between services...even at it’s last one at 160,000 (140,000 miles into the ‘new’ engine).

Not much you can do about shells though as you won’t hear anything until it’s too late, as in my case. From 3-4 x 2-3 laps of driving & cooling down at the Ring where everything was smooth & pulled completely normally, to the first bit of lumpy idle on starting up after refuelling, to pulling the filter out and cam cover off, the car probably did less than 2 miles. The insides looked like the glitter fairy had visited as the filter had lots on both sides, but the bigger (3mm?) flakes on the outside...and the cams looked similar but just very fine particles.

Maybe 100,000 miles would seem a sensible age to check/replace them if they’ve never been done. 40/50k miles is too soon unless it’s either seeing a lot of track time, or only does 2,000 miles a year and ragged from cold on hoons.

 

[R60BBA]

You’re forgetting that the engine will only be tappety if the shims are too far out of spec.

If the shims are too close (there will be no extra tappety sounds) and you could potentially end up burning a valve ($$).

There is nothing weird or unreasonable about enquiring about how garages of other M owners evidence they have completed valve clearances at an Inspection service either.

The video linked above is an example of good practice. Perhaps if main dealers and certain garages did not have a rep for not doing shims despite customers paying for them to be checked; a thread like this would not have to exist.

There is no misinformation on this thread either and I don’t think it would put anyone serious off M ownership.

If you have not voted and are not contributing to the fulcrum of this thread - do not post.

Cheers

 

[BTZ461]

You’re forgetting that the engine will only be tappety if the shims are too far out of spec.

If the shims are too close (there will be no extra tappety sounds) and you could potentially end up burning a valve ($$).

There is nothing weird or unreasonable about enquiring about how garages of other M owners evidence they have completed valve clearances at an Inspection service either.

The video linked above is an example of good practice. Perhaps if main dealers and certain garages did not have a rep for not doing shims despite customers paying for them to be checked; a thread like this would not have to exist.

There is no misinformation on this thread either and I don’t think it would put anyone serious off M ownership.

If you have not voted and are not contributing to the fulcrum of this thread - do not post.

Cheers

Really R6OBBA, get over yourself. If I owned a workshop business and a customer wanted a video of a Insp 1 or 2 to ensure the work was being carried out, I would feel that my integrity was being doubted or challenged. My reply would consist of two works, one beginning with f and the other finishing with the same letter.
I find it really weird, and exceptionally unreasonable about asking for evidence of work being carried out on our cars whether it be BMW or any other brand.
And as for your statement about misinformation, really, much more of this sort of stuff and you will be wearing the cap "Minister of Misinformation"

 

[BTZ461]

Totally agree on the post above here.....some people on recently are acting like these cars are made of rare precious metals that crumble at the slightest rev of the engine. These are £15-20k BMW’s....people worrying about them like they’re old school £150k Italian exotics, I just don’t get it.... :?

Literally all the independent garages I have used in the past have all said not to worry about the S54 engine, it’s one of the most bullet proof ones made, and unless you’re heavily tracking it then you will be fine with sensible maintenance. I have done 9 years across my CSL and MC and they have never ever missed a beat, not even needed an oil top up between services.

Totally agree on the post above here.....some people on recently are acting like these cars are made of rare precious metals that crumble at the slightest rev of the engine. These are £15-20k BMW’s....people worrying about them like they’re old school £150k Italian exotics, I just don’t get it.... :?

Literally all the independent garages I have used in the past have all said not to worry about the S54 engine, it’s one of the most bullet proof ones made, and unless you’re heavily tracking it then you will be fine with sensible maintenance. I have done 9 years across my CSL and MC and they have never ever missed a beat, not even needed an oil top up between services.

Excellent post, quite agree

 

[R60BBA]

Yeah but you don’t own a garage do you.

Point out the misinformation in this thread.

 

[BTZ461]

Yeah but you don’t own a garage do you.

Point out the misinformation in this thread.

Actually..........oh help :headbang:

 

[mmm-five]

I'm trying to be as objective as I can here, but I'm not regaling everyone with apocryphal internet stories...I'm just recounting my own experiences with BMW Dealers and some BMW specialists over 20 years (one specialist even asked me to remove one of my poor reviews/forum posts about them when they were taken over by new, less shifty owners).

I only started asking for a copy of job sheets and shim reports (which they are supposed to produce during the valve clearance measuring process anyway, so I'm not asking for them to do anything extra) when I started getting suspicious that the dealer was not doing all the work, or doing it properly.

First it was things like not putting coolant back in the engine after a coolant change (needed 4 litres of water/coolant to get it too the correct level); then it was forgetting to put the oil filler cap on and having oil all over the engine bay by the time I got home; then it was not changing spark plugs or air/cabin filters; then it was not doing valve clearances because "they sounded fine". Now I check the coolant level, oil cap, and other bits before I leave the forecourt...and I have detailed on here that I became so paranoid (is it actually paranoia if they are missing things out) that I started marking things with UV paint/pen.

In all these cases, the M-tax was clearly added, yet it was usually left to an apprentice/trainee technician to do the work, rather than the Master Technician who I was paying the dealer £150/hour for.

The job sheets showed the trainee had initialled/signed everything and it had all been double-checked and signed off by the Master Tech.

If neither the trainee or the Master Tech spotted these issues, and then signed it off, you start to wonder what else they decide to miss off.

My first M5 started misfiring about 2 days after a £1200 Inspection II, was it just coincidence, or just bad luck that it bent a valve, who knows, but the measurement during this diagnosis was that over half of the clearances were too tight.

BTW, my first Z4M S54B32 was replaced after I noticed a lumpy idle/misfire on the way home from an Inspection I at a BMW dealer (who then tried to get me to pay over £3k of diagnostics costs as BMW Warranty said it was excessive and wouldn't pay). Never got the PUMA report/response that I was promised, only a slightly redacted copy of the invoice, and a note about a bent valve on cyl.1 ...read into that what you will. I stopped as soon as I noticed the misfire (about 20 miles away), called the dealer who asked me to call BMW Assist to get it recovered to them. Now, the car was fine when I took it in, so was either coincidence or caused by the Inspection. But could a minor issue have been turned into a bent valve by the non-BMW Assist patrol that was sent trying to clear a 'fuel blockage' by revving the nuts off the car for 45 minutes?

 

[mmm-five]

DPM

 

[R_P_M_]

Really guys I just cannot believe how weird and precious you posters are becoming on this forum. What with the rod bearing replacement issues, and now this I'm beginning to wonder it the the Z4M is really the car for you all. If we may recount over the past twelve years we have owned eight S54, and S50 engined cars. Yes, they have all been low mileage examples, all have had a serious going over on arrival. All have had without exception valve clearances within spec. It is extremely rare to find an engine outside spec, just ask any competent engineer the stats. And the same with the alleged rod bearing issue. None of the pictures posted on this forum would have given me cause for concern, sure there was signs of wear, but given age and mileage, no more nor less than what an engineer would expect to see. Like the shins you are all banging on about they are wear items.
Come on chaps, give yourselves a serious talking to, anyone considering the purchase of a Z4M and looking through these forum pages could quite rightly make a decision not to acquire a car because of the misinformation your all are constantly spouting off to all and sundry. Perhaps the BMW M brand is not the brand to have in your garages :roll:
And those amongst us of us who have garage workshops as a business are laughing their heads off at all the misinformation floating about, come on guys it is not always true if you read about it on the internet :x

My mate used to service a lot of S54's amongst other performance cars 6-10 years ago. When I mentioned rod bearings after buying my z4m this year, he said he'd never heard of it as an issue (which makes sense as it's grown in popularity as an issue the last 5 years it seems). I then sent him some posts with photos of replaced rod bearings and he said, wow, they're fucked. Until that point, every forum post I'd run past him as a 'myth', he'd always be able to disprove. For example, he changed the cams on my Clio 182 without doing a full belt and dephaser change for example... something the forums say is impossible. So I tend to believe that whilst a lot of stuff is blown up into disproportion by forums, changing rod bearings once you're into 6 figure mileages seems wise.

As for asking for evidence of work being done by someone I've paid money to... don't see the issue.

 

[beanie]

It’s such a simple job that if you’re in any doubt about them then read up, buy the bits you need and diy. The first time will be a little daunting but you’ll have paid for the tools in one go and every subsequent check is money in the bank.

As for noise, I’ve only ever noticed a difference in sound after the first time I did it as it was a slight increase in ticking that led me to have a go in the first place. If you hear a constant noise than it’s most likely the injectors-they’re bloody loud.

As for evidence, I’m not too worried as I take it to places I trust although I’m not sure I’ve actually ever had anyone else do it. A pic of the engine showing the valve cover off and the radiator out (if working from above to spin the engine) would be proof enough as that takes as long as the actual valve adjustment.

 

[mmm-five]

Remember guys, we're talking about issues with maybe 1% of the S54s produced.

There are probably over 100,000 S54s made, and many running into higher mileages with only scheduled maintenance, and there aren't thousands with major issues. The engines in the earlier M3/Z3M were more prone to these than those in the later M3/Z4M.

 

[BTZ461]

You’re forgetting that the engine will only be tappety if the shims are too far out of spec.

If the shims are too close (there will be no extra tappety sounds) and you could potentially end up burning a valve ($$).

There is nothing weird or unreasonable about enquiring about how garages of other M owners evidence they have completed valve clearances at an Inspection service either.

The video linked above is an example of good practice. Perhaps if main dealers and certain garages did not have a rep for not doing shims despite customers paying for them to be checked; a thread like this would not have to exist.

There is no misinformation on this thread either and I don’t think it would put anyone serious off M ownership.

If you have not voted and are not contributing to the fulcrum of this thread - do not post.

Cheers

Really R6OBBA, get over yourself. If I owned a workshop business and a customer wanted a video of a Insp 1 or 2 to ensure the work was being carried out, I would feel that my integrity was being doubted or challenged. My reply would consist of two words, one beginning with f and the other finishing with the same letter.
I find it really weird, and exceptionally unreasonable about asking for evidence of work being carried out on our cars whether it be BMW or any other brand.
And as for your statement about misinformation, really, much more of this sort of stuff and you will be wearing the cap "Minister of Misinformation"

 

[R60BBA]

So to update this thread, I ended up booking the car in with RBM Hampshire (owned by forum member @Bowser134 aka “roof god”) for an Inspection I.

Anyways, I can confirm that I was provided with a shims report and photos of the engine with the valve cover off etc.

I also had a compression test done as the car is just about to touch 100k and was happy to be re-assured that the engine is holding strong compression across all cylinders.

It’s also worth mentioning that Ross provided me with a courtesy car which came in handy as it meant I only missed the first hour of work in the mornings.

So to wrap this up, if like me you have lost faith in your regular garage (for whatever reason) and are looking for a competent garage who offer transparency - get in touch with RBM Hampshire.

:driving: