Increased battery discharge?
- Thread starter jamesgarbett
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Scotland 🏴
Scottish Borders
So far all the batteries we’ve seen are AGMs..AGMs are a subset of the general description of lead acid batteries.
AGMs have a different chemistry as well,as physical changes.
The charging profile is different hence why most modern battery chargers have an AGM option.
Given that all UK E89s have regenerative charging that always goes hand in hand with AGM.
E89s never fully charge their batteries..they leave residual capacity to allow regenerative charging to take place.
Without the correct voltage profile the calculations for all subsystems will be slightly off.
Non of my E89s have stop start but all came with AGM batteries that’s a 2011 and a 2012 MY
AGMs have a different chemistry as well,as physical changes.
The charging profile is different hence why most modern battery chargers have an AGM option.
Given that all UK E89s have regenerative charging that always goes hand in hand with AGM.
E89s never fully charge their batteries..they leave residual capacity to allow regenerative charging to take place.
Without the correct voltage profile the calculations for all subsystems will be slightly off.
Non of my E89s have stop start but all came with AGM batteries that’s a 2011 and a 2012 MY
B21 said:So far all the batteries we’ve seen are AGMs..AGMs are a subset of the general description of lead acid batteries.
AGMs have a different chemistry as well,as physical changes.
The charging profile is different hence why most modern battery chargers have an AGM option.
Given that all UK E89s have regenerative charging that always goes hand in hand with AGM.
E89s never fully charge their batteries..they leave residual capacity to allow regenerative charging to take place.
Without the correct voltage profile the calculations for all subsystems will be slightly off.
Non of my E89s have stop start but all came with AGM batteries that’s a 2011 and a 2012 MY
I'm not doubting your knowledge here and appreciate opinions.
The pic I posted of my original battery I'm pretty sure is not AGM, it's BMW stickered and dated week 23 2010 so I assume is what left the factory when new.
Quick Google on the part number and results come in as non AGM so that's what it got early this year. FWIW whilst I may have a few minor issues with the car, I can't attribute any down to the battery.
when i replaced my 2009s battery I believe it was the original as it was bmw branded and had a 2008 date stamp, it was an AGM battery..from my reading I also thought all e89s had AGM not due to them needing start stop but because of the regenerative braking system ?
At the summit of the picturesque fens
Zforbes said:The pic I posted of my original battery I'm pretty sure is not AGM, it's BMW stickered and dated week 23 2010 so I assume is what left the factory when new.
Quick Google on the part number and results come in as non AGM so that's what it got early this year. FWIW whilst I may have a few minor issues with the car, I can't attribute any down to the battery.
This is just a guess so don't shoot me:
Maybe cars without stop/start originally came with non AGM batteries and ones with S/S did. That would make sense to me, as the AGM for a given physical size (to fit in the hole) would be higher capacity.
Most batteries are changed at some point, so are generally then changed for an AGM regardless?
Zforbes said:
Like you I didn't think it was an AGM battery in mine, car doesn't have stop/start, even went to National Tyres to get a new battery and they didn't know, but then again they didn't know about battery registration either so that set the alarms off! I took the serial number of my existing OEM battery and it came up as AGM after a search on the internet and I also read that those people at BMW use black casings for their AGM batteries. There must be a few E89s running around with non AGM batteries as its not clearly marked, but I suppose BMW are only interested in it during the warranty period and expect you to return to them when needing a new battery.
Zforbes said:B21 said:So far all the batteries we’ve seen are AGMs..AGMs are a subset of the general description of lead acid batteries.
AGMs have a different chemistry as well,as physical changes.
The charging profile is different hence why most modern battery chargers have an AGM option.
Given that all UK E89s have regenerative charging that always goes hand in hand with AGM.
E89s never fully charge their batteries..they leave residual capacity to allow regenerative charging to take place.
Without the correct voltage profile the calculations for all subsystems will be slightly off.
Non of my E89s have stop start but all came with AGM batteries that’s a 2011 and a 2012 MY
I'm not doubting your knowledge here and appreciate opinions.
The pic I posted of my original battery I'm pretty sure is not AGM, it's BMW stickered and dated week 23 2010 so I assume is what left the factory when new.
Quick Google on the part number and results come in as non AGM so that's what it got early this year. FWIW whilst I may have a few minor issues with the car, I can't attribute any down to the battery.
You can tell your original battery is AGM by the ratio of ah capacity to cranking capacity…yours is 70 ah and 760 cca
An EFB battery would be 70 ah and 600 ish cca
Example here.. https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/powerline/096efb/?gclid=CjwKCAiAh_GNBhAHEiwAjOh3ZBbMiB5iEMBtPb820O_bF82W3pg5CT8Jgs9s_EfU1d-B7dS8Sq9XoBoCCoEQAvD_BwE
B21 said:Zforbes said:B21 said:So far all the batteries we’ve seen are AGMs..AGMs are a subset of the general description of lead acid batteries.
AGMs have a different chemistry as well,as physical changes.
The charging profile is different hence why most modern battery chargers have an AGM option.
Given that all UK E89s have regenerative charging that always goes hand in hand with AGM.
E89s never fully charge their batteries..they leave residual capacity to allow regenerative charging to take place.
Without the correct voltage profile the calculations for all subsystems will be slightly off.
Non of my E89s have stop start but all came with AGM batteries that’s a 2011 and a 2012 MY
I'm not doubting your knowledge here and appreciate opinions.
The pic I posted of my original battery I'm pretty sure is not AGM, it's BMW stickered and dated week 23 2010 so I assume is what left the factory when new.
Quick Google on the part number and results come in as non AGM so that's what it got early this year. FWIW whilst I may have a few minor issues with the car, I can't attribute any down to the battery.
You can tell your original battery is AGM by the ratio of ah capacity to cranking capacity…yours is 70 ah and 760 cca
An EFB battery would be 70 ah and 600 ish cca
Example here.. https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/powerline/096efb/?gclid=CjwKCAiAh_GNBhAHEiwAjOh3ZBbMiB5iEMBtPb820O_bF82W3pg5CT8Jgs9s_EfU1d-B7dS8Sq9XoBoCCoEQAvD_BwE
I'm becoming resigned to the fact I've got the wrong battery on my car although the battery I bought is a yuassa with 80ah 740 CCA from a local motor factors like this one
https://www.thebatteryshop.co.uk/yuasa-12v-80ah-740a-silver-car-battery-ybx5096-hsb096-8593-p.asp
I thought AGM always stated that on the label and they weren't vented, I've now read otherwise.
It's been on about 7 months now and other than the lock issue I had which since inspecting the wiring loom has been fault free no other electrical gremlins.
I'm assuming now that whilst it's working fine it'll probably not last as long as the original one. I'll continue to use it unless I have a reason not to.
I can't see why it's the 'wrong' battery, just not quite the same credentials as OEM.Zforbes said:
At the end of the day as long as it starts the car easily, runs all the electrical circuits and keeps doing that by charging from the alternator, then it is fine.
Yuasa are a good make and the underlying amperage figures are very close to the OEM. And if you paid 87 quid I'd say happy days.
Pondrew said:I can't see why it's the 'wrong' battery, just not quite the same credentials as OEM.Zforbes said:
At the end of the day as long as it starts the car easily, runs all the electrical circuits and keeps doing that by charging from the alternator, then it is fine.
Yuasa are a good make and the underlying amperage figures are very close to the OEM. And if you paid 87 quid I'd say happy days.
It's been fine so far so in it stays
I changed it because I had EPS failure at the time and read on here first thing to do is check the battery. Since I had the battery warning occasionally it was worth a try, didn't resolve the EPS issue but the battery warning went away at least
Pondrew said:I can't see why it's the 'wrong' battery, just not quite the same credentials as OEM.Zforbes said:
At the end of the day as long as it starts the car easily, runs all the electrical circuits and keeps doing that by charging from the alternator, then it is fine.
Yuasa are a good make and the underlying amperage figures are very close to the OEM. And if you paid 87 quid I'd say happy days.
Sometimes no matter how much you try to annunciate a point people seem to fail to grasp the point
The voltage profile of an AGM battery is different to other lead acid batteries.
Therefore the systems that charge the battery and do a myriad of complex calculations across many ECUs on the E89 are being fed with erroneous data as a use of using the incorrect technology….
Therefore predictions on how long various systems should run for and when to sleep and when and how much to charge the battery will all be incorrect.
How incorrect and in what forms I don’t know but they will be incorrect….whether it has a profound effect on anything is debatable, but it’s not right…certainly it would fail the proposed anti tampering law
You are coming from a different perspective, though, Peter. You are coming from a 'technology' perspective, I am coming from a 'practical' perspective.B21 said:Sometimes no matter how much you try to annunciate a point people seem to fail to grasp the point
The voltage profile of an AGM battery is different to other lead acid batteries.
Therefore the systems that charge the battery and do a myriad of complex calculations across many ECUs on the E89 are being fed with erroneous data as a use of using the incorrect technology….
Therefore predictions on how long various systems should run for and when to sleep and when and how much to charge the battery will all be incorrect.
How incorrect and in what forms I don’t know but they will be incorrect….whether it has a profound effect on anything is debatable, but it’s not right…certainly it would fail the proposed anti tampering law
It's a ferking battery which is filled with lead and sulphuric acid, not a nuclear reactor.
Also on another note; how are you posting when you are driving from Hampshire to the Arctic?
Pondrew said:You are coming from a different perspective, though, Peter. You are coming from a 'technology' perspective, I am coming from a 'practical' perspective.B21 said:Sometimes no matter how much you try to annunciate a point people seem to fail to grasp the point
The voltage profile of an AGM battery is different to other lead acid batteries.
Therefore the systems that charge the battery and do a myriad of complex calculations across many ECUs on the E89 are being fed with erroneous data as a use of using the incorrect technology….
Therefore predictions on how long various systems should run for and when to sleep and when and how much to charge the battery will all be incorrect.
How incorrect and in what forms I don’t know but they will be incorrect….whether it has a profound effect on anything is debatable, but it’s not right…certainly it would fail the proposed anti tampering law
It's a ferking battery which is filled with lead and sulphuric acid, not a nuclear reactor.
Yes quite so…put a leisure battery in it and really f**k it up
I was going to post a picture of a post of a caravan leisure battery but see they’ve mostly gone AGM and even lithium..
I still don’t get why people buy a ‘performance car’ then put sub optimal stuff in it..apart from ignorance…
But then again saw £500k aircraft with wires gaffa tape..
I’ll lie down in a dark room now..
I still don't understand why people think an exact like for like replacement part is the only option...apart from ignorance...B21 said:
Why is the battery in question 'sub optimal'? It does the job it is needed to do quite happily.
What do you think is going to happen? It's going to fry the electronics and set light to the car?
Surely if, as you elude to, the car's ECU is so clever, it should be able to compensate for this 'sub-optimal' part?
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I still don’t get why people buy a ‘performance car’ then put sub optimal stuff in it..apart from ignorance…
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Ouch, my car is treated very fine like the diva it is, the only abuse it gets is with my right foot, any issues resolved as soon as possible and runs on the finest petrol around.
The battery was fitted what I understood as like for like, no AGM sticker so it got a replacement in order to confirm the battery was not the cause of an EPS failure. It wasn't but the battery has been fine since.
Work completed mostly by myself as I don't trust anyone else to meddle with my p&j, if I do need assistance it's overseen by myself anyway.
I still don’t get why people buy a ‘performance car’ then put sub optimal stuff in it..apart from ignorance…
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Ouch, my car is treated very fine like the diva it is, the only abuse it gets is with my right foot, any issues resolved as soon as possible and runs on the finest petrol around.
The battery was fitted what I understood as like for like, no AGM sticker so it got a replacement in order to confirm the battery was not the cause of an EPS failure. It wasn't but the battery has been fine since.
Work completed mostly by myself as I don't trust anyone else to meddle with my p&j, if I do need assistance it's overseen by myself anyway.