In or Out Exit Poll

[SpiketheBike]

This thread is so refreshing. It is the first intelligent, friendly and polite discussion I have seen on the referendum, anywhere.

I am fed up with people telling me that because nearly half the country voted to Remain, that means I am moronic and have been drawn in by all the bullshit. Firstly, they need to realise that just over half the voters think THEY are wrong. And secondly, I made my own mind up, based on what I was reading from both sides, once I'd cut through all the crap.
I have never fallen for the immigration arguments, because I actually don't believe it is going to change just because we are leaving the EU. I may be wrong, but time will tell, and I have voted according to my beliefs and principals.

The politicians on both sides let themselves down badly. I don't remember any talk of the positives of staying in the EU, (but there may well have been those discussions, I just didn't hear them). For such a fundamental constitutional decision, just for once it would have been nice for the politics to have been left to one side.

I am no great fan of Micheal Gove, or Nigel Farage. I happen to think the Boris is a very clever bloke, although I'm not sure if he is right to lead the country.

Lots of interesting points here though. I agree that Scotland need to rethink any ideas of a second referendum as they will not get automatic membership of the EU, even IF they can fulfill all the necessary fiscal requirements.

My main reason for voting Leave, was how I envisaged the future of the EU. Further political and financial integration would be absolutely essential to ensure the survival of the Eurozone. This would then allow the EU to tell us how to set our income tax and VAT levels. There has already been an announcement today concerning the establishment of a European Army, and there are some very restrictive Pension rules due to be announced soon too. A Federal state of Europe is not my idea of where I want to be.

I personally have never agreed with the Eurozone and always expected it to fail, simply because so many of the participating countries do not have the financial maturity to manage their economies as well as Germany, for instance. As has been amply proven over the last few years. That the whole process has been on the edge of collapse for the last few years should come as no surprise.

As I see it now, the are two possible scenarios for the EU.
1) Other countries follow suit, and hold referendums, which will probably mean the collapse of the EU.
Or
2) The EU 'leaders' wake up and do actually change to meet the needs of it's remaining 440 million inhabitants. (In which case we can take the credit!)

As far as we are concerned, not only did over 17 million people vote to leave, but a further 15 million registered voters didn't care enough either way to vote.

Phew!!

 

[pvr]

Do you think that other countries will "allow" a referendum as it is at best political suicide for the leader like it was always going to be for Cameron if he lost?

 

[Grumpyowl]

This thread is so refreshing. It is the first intelligent, friendly and polite discussion I have seen on the referendum, anywhere.

I am fed up with people telling me that because nearly half the country voted to Remain, that means I am moronic and have been drawn in by all the bullshit. Firstly, they need to realise that just over half the voters think THEY are wrong. And secondly, I made my own mind up, based on what I was reading from both sides, once I'd cut through all the crap.
I have never fallen for the immigration arguments, because I actually don't believe it is going to change just because we are leaving the EU. I may be wrong, but time will tell, and I have voted according to my beliefs and principals.

The politicians on both sides let themselves down badly. I don't remember any talk of the positives of staying in the EU, (but there may well have been those discussions, I just didn't hear them). For such a fundamental constitutional decision, just for once it would have been nice for the politics to have been left to one side.

I am no great fan of Micheal Gove, or Nigel Farage. I happen to think the Boris is a very clever bloke, although I'm not sure if he is right to lead the country.

Lots of interesting points here though. I agree that Scotland need to rethink any ideas of a second referendum as they will not get automatic membership of the EU, even IF they can fulfill all the necessary fiscal requirements.

My main reason for voting Leave, was how I envisaged the future of the EU. Further political and financial integration would be absolutely essential to ensure the survival of the Eurozone. This would then allow the EU to tell us how to set our income tax and VAT levels. There has already been an announcement today concerning the establishment of a European Army, and there are some very restrictive Pension rules due to be announced soon too. A Federal state of Europe is not my idea of where I want to be.

I personally have never agreed with the Eurozone and always expected it to fail, simply because so many of the participating countries do not have the financial maturity to manage their economies as well as Germany, for instance. As has been amply proven over the last few years. That the whole process has been on the edge of collapse for the last few years should come as no surprise.

As I see it now, the are two possible scenarios for the EU.
1) Other countries follow suit, and hold referendums, which will probably mean the collapse of the EU.
Or
2) The EU 'leaders' wake up and do actually change to meet the needs of it's remaining 440 million inhabitants. (In which case we can take the credit!)

As far as we are concerned, not only did over 17 million people vote to leave, but a further 15 million registered voters didn't care enough either way to vote.

Phew!!

Good post

 

[Grumpyowl]

Do you think that other countries will "allow" a referendum as it is at best political suicide for the leader like it was always going to be for Cameron if he lost?

As unrest grows in other countries maybe in order to get elected a referendum promise maybe the only way to get elected.

 

[SpiketheBike]

Do you think that other countries will "allow" a referendum as it is at best political suicide for the leader like it was always going to be for Cameron if he lost?

I think it will require the voting in of the relevant right wing parties in France and the Netherlands for instance, but if they are voted in at their next national elections, and that's probably on the cards, then yes, I think it will happen.

 

[SpiketheBike]

And, I think the David Cameron, having called a democratic referendum, should have had the courage to stay in power and see it through to the end. Very disappointing.

 

[Grumpyowl]

And, I think the David Cameron, having called a democratic referendum, should have had the courage to stay in power and see it through to the end. Very disappointing.

Cameron having given the referendum should have stayed neutral throughout,
promising to carry out the people's wishes once the vote was over.

 

[gannet]

And, I think the David Cameron, having called a democratic referendum, should have had the courage to stay in power and see it through to the end. Very disappointing.

this is how feel too... would've marked him out from all the rest.

 

[PerryGunn]

...I agree that Scotland need to rethink any ideas of a second referendum as they will not get automatic membership of the EU, even IF they can fulfill all the necessary fiscal requirements....

During the previous IndyRef the perceived wisdom around Europe was that, because of concerns regarding internal secessionist movements, both Spain and Belgium would block an independent Scotland's application to join the European Union - they both still have these issues, Spain with the Basques and Catalonia, Belgium with Flanders...

 

[markeg]

Cameron having given the referendum should have stayed neutral throughout, promising to carry out the people's wishes once the vote was over.

^This. Once Cameron pinned his colours to a particular mast, he effected a protest vote against him and Osbourne which IMO played a part in the Leave vote. He should have stayed out of the campaign, stating he would deliver the mandate once the referendum was decided, and let the two campaigns be managed separately. Corbyn should have done the same, and stayed neutral - especially as everyone knows he isn't in favour of the EU, so his Remain stance just played completely false.

 

[buzyg]

Cameron having given the referendum should have stayed neutral throughout, promising to carry out the people's wishes once the vote was over.

^This. Once Cameron pinned his colours to a particular mast, he effected a protest vote against him and Osbourne which IMO played a part in the Leave vote. He should have stayed out of the campaign, stating he would deliver the mandate once the referendum was decided, and let the two campaigns be managed separately. Corbyn should have done the same, and stayed neutral - especially as everyone knows he isn't in favour of the EU, so his Remain stance just played completely false.

I have to agree completely with this.

 

[pvr]

Can we continue to speed in Europe as hopefully the exchange of driver details will now be stopped I hope? 8)

 

[buzyg]

Can we continue to speed in Europe as hopefully the exchange of driver details will now be stopped I hope? 8)

Is there a fly on the wall in our lounge. I was talking about exactly this with my wife.

There are a number of long term projects running to link data bases across European police and security forces. All of these will now hit a short term road block, as EU member states re-evaluate if they wish to share the data with Britain. It's a little more serious than just a speeding fine.

 

[Darkangelv2]

Cameron having given the referendum should have stayed neutral throughout, promising to carry out the people's wishes once the vote was over.

^This. Once Cameron pinned his colours to a particular mast, he effected a protest vote against him and Osbourne which IMO played a part in the Leave vote. He should have stayed out of the campaign, stating he would deliver the mandate once the referendum was decided, and let the two campaigns be managed separately. Corbyn should have done the same, and stayed neutral - especially as everyone knows he isn't in favour of the EU, so his Remain stance just played completely false.

I have to agree completely with this.

Absolutely this!!!

This had Brexit McBrexitFace all over it.

He was toxic to the campaign from the beginning and I can't believe the Remain campaign hadn't predicted that!? He could have been so magnanimous throughout and then appeared a knight in shining armour regardless of the result.

 

[stuartC]

Cameron having given the referendum should have stayed neutral throughout, promising to carry out the people's wishes once the vote was over.

^This. Once Cameron pinned his colours to a particular mast, he effected a protest vote against him and Osbourne which IMO played a part in the Leave vote. He should have stayed out of the campaign, stating he would deliver the mandate once the referendum was decided, and let the two campaigns be managed separately. Corbyn should have done the same, and stayed neutral - especially as everyone knows he isn't in favour of the EU, so his Remain stance just played completely false.

+1 Couldn't agree more. Acknowledging there were some leavers who'd done their homework, this was simply a protest vote. Which we all now have to live with.

 

[pvr]

Can we continue to speed in Europe as hopefully the exchange of driver details will now be stopped I hope? 8)

Is there a fly on the wall in our lounge. I was talking about exactly this with my wife.

There are a number of long term projects running to link data bases across European police and security forces. All of these will now hit a short term road block, as EU member states re-evaluate if they wish to share the data with Britain. It's a little more serious than just a speeding fine.

I am looking for positives :lol:

 

[skelters]

This thread is becoming a comedy!

Here's the info for the slower minded amongst us.

Scotland is not a basket case. Without Oil and Gas revenue Scotland can still survive.

Scotland contributes more than it gets back in pocket money from Westminster. This is not English Money coming back across the border it's Scottish money. Remember that, research it, ask you're MP, ask for freedom on information on it. You will be surprised.

Oil and Gas has always and will always be an extra to Scotland. Renewable Energy will be the same.

The GERS Report. How many times has this be debunked? GERS was set up by the Tories to report on what the Tories want. It is biased towards the Tory point of view and what Westminster wants not to Scotland. You can prove anything with statistics.

Nicola Sturgeon is not leaving. She delivered a Remain Vote across Scotland and the Indpendence side has increased no matter how many times they wheel out Ruth "Tank Commander" Davidson or Kezia "The Deputy" Dugdale, Fluffy Mundell or any of the Non SNP MSP's or the three MP's to say otherwise that includes the talking heads or celebrities that tell us different. IT IS NOT TRUE and they all know it.

Scottish Independence is coming and remember all the contributions to the State Pension that Scottish people have made over the years up to the point of Scottish Independence. Westminster will still be liable to pay those pensions or a % up to the point of Independence when people retire. That money has to come from somewhere and it will not be from the people of Scotland it will be from "UK" tax payers. Where will you find that money?


Something else to remember is that Article 50 won't be tabled anytime soon. When it is all hell will really break loose as what we've seen today is nothing.

Be prepared for Boris "the dangerous" Johnson become Prime Minister then saying a 2nd Referendum on the EU is required or that they want to renegotiate the UK terms of membership as that's what was originally tabled.

Meanwhile EU leaders may just call the UK's bluff and demand they leave. Be prepared for Trade Tariffs with the EU and you have heard of TTIP haven't you. That's waiting in the wings.

Cameron the Pig fucker has actually stitched up both sides by resigning as none of the Tories really want to leave when it comes down to the money in their pocket. There's also the fact that whoever's next is going to have to deliver the exit from the EU. 2 years? Try 10 years and you might be closer but still waiting in 15 years time. Could well be that the Tories will want another General Election and try to lose it to get Labour to take the blame for the failed EU exit.

BBC Pravda etc. will start very soon with the renegotiate terms then a 2nd EU Referendum. Wait and see.

You've all woken up in England and Wales today but it seems that you've not seen through the state media machine that is actually pulling the wool over your eyes with all this.

 

[pvr]

I am glad Scotland can afford free healthcare and free universities whilst no other country can afford that. Long may it continue after an independence ...

 

[Angie4m]

I am glad Scotland can afford free healthcare and free universities whilst no other country can afford that. Long may it continue after an independence ...

Now there is something that really gets my goat.......the latter part of that!

Just read that the Germans think that this could cause the French, Dutch, Austians, Hungarians and the Finnish people could all go the same way and in order to try and stem that they may offer the UK an 'associated partner role' so basically still being in the EU without any of their laws and we say you do this.

This might not be all that bad after all.

 

[techathy]

In or out I'm not too bothered. What this referendum shows is the UK's democratic process is totally broken; a minority (just under 37.5%) vote will cause this country to leave the EU. :thumbsdown: