Hypothetical question

[WaZZZZman]

All the talk on the forum about OBD 2 sensors and CEL lights. Brings up a question I would like to pose to you members. I am old enough to remember when there were no emission control devices on vehicle engines at all. Then catalytic converters started to show up and now we have pumps, sensors, and other devices up the butt. I know we were told we need these devices to keep what clean air we have clean, but I wonder.

I remember when we, here in my state, had vehicle safety inspections to cut down on the accident caused by bad cars. The only problem was that after a lot of real crash analysis the number of defective cars that caused crashes was so small that it did not warrant the tax money we were spending to prevent these few accidents and we stopped. There was much gnashing of teeth and crying by the government employees who lost their jobs, but the number of accidents did not take a dramatic rise.

There are people out there who restore cars and rebuild engines. Maybe even racing engines that do not have all the pollution stuff on them. Has anyone taken one of these engines through a emissions check point to see how poorly they perform compared to one with all the pumps bells and whistles? It seems to me that there are a lot of CEL problems that we are having to work on when in fact there is absolutely nothing wrong with the engine at all, just the damn device that is doing the checking to see if the engine is working correctly.

Nothing will be done about things like this, because too many people and businesses now are entrenched in the business of emissions. I just wonder if we are all just being suckered into something that could be done better if we thought about it. Any ideas?

 

[flyboyaj]

Reminds me of the story of the old lady in a nursing home who had to take a pill for her blood pressure immediately upon waking or it could rise to levels that would induce stress and a possible stroke. But that blood pressure pill caused an upset stomach so she would take a pill for that. And that stomach pill caused her to be constipated, so she had to take a pill for that. And the constipation pill gave her headaches, so she had to take a pill for that. And the headache pill was too much for her liver so she had to take a pill for that... and you get the point.

One day she refused to take her pills and immediately upon waking drank a glass of water and went out for a walk. Her blood pressure didn't rise that day and she continued to do that every morning for the next 23 years before she finally died peacefully in her sleep of old age.

In the business world it's called "cutting the red tape". Many people have made a fortune selling people things they do not need and cannot afford. There are so many needless "middlemen" in this world that the economy could do without and we would all have more time to enjoy our families and raise our kids. And so much of what we do and the rules that have been laid before us is in the name of preventing something bad that "might" happen if we don't, but we never know if that something does happen and we never conduct experiments or do the research to prove that it doesn't - and in those cases where we do, in my experience, the results are skewed to favor the precautionary action that is so costly and just causes other problems.

Unfortunately in this world the Golden Rule applies (he who has the Gold rules), and in most cases he who has the Gold wants more of it.

I could go on, but I'll stop there.

 

[flyboyaj]

This thread is more geared toward the intellectual types... sorry PhilDZ4,

 

[AlanL]

Many years ago (yes back in the days of no mandatory pollution controls) it was actually the case that well built racing motors were actually far more efficient and had cleaner exhaust emissions than any of the engines that are running with all of the various parts and pieces that comprise modern pollution control hardware. They were highly tuned engines and the downside is the fact that they require more attention from a skilled mechanic than the typical motor vehicle tooling around on our streets. I am afraid that the maintenance issue was the deciding factor that led to mandatory hardware as a solution to the problem.

You and I both recall engine compartments you could crawl into as you worked on your engine as opposed to what we see now when we open the hood with the myriad of pipes, plumbing and electronics between us and any reasonable understanding of what's going on under the hood without plugging the car into a computer. I do have to confess I sometimes miss the days of being able to tune a VW bus engine with 2 wrenches, a screwdriver and a book of matches but at the same time once I unwind the steering wheel coming out of a turn while adding throttle the feeling of deprivation goes away quickly

 

[powerontap]

Ok, can someone summarize for me? I have problems with posts over 3 lines long that don't involve graphics...

+1

 

[cj10jeeper]

I agree with AlanL that in days gone by cars were simple devices that could be tuned well with a few simple tools, but then again I remember UK Winters as our cars never started while damp, ran like diesels, broke down, needed decoking and then am happy with the changes and way we are now.

In terms of do we need all this stuff on the cars - I think we do as manufacturers will do anything to remove a component, circuit, piece of wire, etc. to reduce costs. Therfore I'm certain that if a car could run and meet the set standards without, then these items would not be fitted.

Now are the various emissions standards that they have to work to of any real value, or just some beaurocrat creating ever higher hurdles for manufacturers to jump? Well I'm not qualified to say, but having travelled the world a fair bit I do think that parts of Europe and the US do make it difficult for ourselves.

 

[WLH]

Now are the various emissions standards that they have to work to of any real value, or just some beaurocrat creating ever higher hurdles for manufacturers to jump?

That's a question I would really like to know the answer to...

 

[bras0782]

Now are the various emissions standards that they have to work to of any real value, or just some beaurocrat creating ever higher hurdles for manufacturers to jump?

That's a question I would really like to know the answer to...

Exactly!

 

[bras0782]

...And so much of what we do and the rules that have been laid before us is in the name of preventing something bad that "might" happen if we don't, but we never know if that something does happen and we never conduct experiments or do the research to prove that it doesn't - and in those cases where we do, in my experience, the results are skewed to favor the precautionary action that is so costly and just causes other problems.

Unfortunately in this world the Golden Rule applies (he who has the Gold rules), and in most cases he who has the Gold wants more of it.

I could go on, but I'll stop there.

Why does this remind me of the foreign policy of a rather big and powerful nation

 

[Aebous]

I think it's someone bucking for a promotion or trying to keep their job personally.

 

[2dogs]

Evolution! can not be stopped ldman:

 

[flyboyaj]

What are those?

 

[flyboyaj]

Some people have nothing better to do :roll: