HS2

pvr

pvr

Lifer
South East UK
I have never quite understood the benefit of this link, as basically it would mean that people working in London can then live in Manchester for half the living cost and still travel to work?

What is the benefit for Manchester as it would only raise their house prices as far as I can see.
 
Wouldn't it have updated a rail network that's still stuck in the 1880s?

Pretty much a disastrous handling of affairs, either start and complete it or not at all, pathetic really.

Think of all the money a preparatory work and effort that had already gone into the Phase 2 leg which is now completely wasted and down the drain.

Think I did around a years worth or work on HS2 working in planning in Local Government as the route came through Staffs, waste of time :cry:

You simply can't believe anything this Goverment promises.

The North South divide again.

Tim.
 
I think 2 hours 15 as the current time from London to Manchester is pretty impressive though. To be fair, who travels by train nowadays on a regular basis as everyone seems to work from home, so the need for a link for economic reasons does not seem to be there anymore.
 
I think the train service would be used alot more if it was a decent service to begin with. No incentive to use it as it currently stands. Strikes and outdated. it's hardly surprising people want to work from home.

Tim.
 
jock156 said:
Out of curiosity Tim, at what level were you involved in terms of planning?
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I worked in minerals and waste planning, so the Local Authority (County Council) would have dealt with the planning applications albeight permitted development for the borrow pits/quarries needed for sand and gravel supply for the concrete requirements, culverts/bridges etc along the route in Staffordshire. Also involved in preparatory work in supplying HS2 consultants with the necessary environmental impact/historical planning info required along the route, old landfills etc that would have impacted the route. I would imagine the construction industry will be receive a good hit now in lost work along with jobs that were taken on to fulfill HS2 requirements.

Of course the Government are now going to redirect HS2 budget on other construction and transport projects oh and filling in pot holes :lol: Not convinced :roll:

Tim.
 
We have had the fast train for years.
Folkestone Central to St. Pancras = 54 Minutes. 8)
(£29 return)
 
TitanTim said:
Wouldn't it have updated a rail network that's still stuck in the 1880s?

Pretty much a disastrous handling of affairs, either start and complete it or not at all, pathetic really.

Think of all the money a preparatory work and effort that had already gone into the Phase 2 leg which is now completely wasted and down the drain.

Think I did around a years worth or work on HS2 working in planning in Local Government as the route came through Staffs, waste of time :cry:

You simply can't believe anything this Government promises.

The North South divide again.

Tim.
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I think the problem goes back further and wider than this Govt.

Alistair Darling first proposed HS2 and approved the route which was never viable in the first place. If successive Govts were intent on building it, they should have started in Newcastle / York / Leeds then Manchester before going onto Brum and South.

Heard an interesting interview with the project manager for HS1 which was brought in 8 weeks early and under budget. The reason for his success and HS2 failure was simple. The contractors bidding for HS1 were never told the budget, so tended under. For HS2 the budget was well known as was the estimated contingency so contractors upped their bids right from the start taking into account the total budget and the contingency fund.
 
Nanu said:
TitanTim said:
Wouldn't it have updated a rail network that's still stuck in the 1880s?

Pretty much a disastrous handling of affairs, either start and complete it or not at all, pathetic really.

Think of all the money a preparatory work and effort that had already gone into the Phase 2 leg which is now completely wasted and down the drain.

Think I did around a years worth or work on HS2 working in planning in Local Government as the route came through Staffs, waste of time :cry:

You simply can't believe anything this Government promises.

The North South divide again.

Tim.
Click to expand...
I think the problem goes back further and wider than this Govt.

Alistair Darling first proposed HS2 and approved the route which was never viable in the first place. If successive Govts were intent on building it, they should have started in Newcastle / York / Leeds then Manchester before going onto Brum and South.

Heard an interesting interview with the project manager for HS1 which was brought in 8 weeks early and under budget. The reason for his success and HS2 failure was simple. The contractors bidding for HS1 were never told the budget, so tended under. For HS2 the budget was well known as was the estimated contingency so contractors upped their bids right from the start taking into account the total budget and the contingency fund.
Click to expand...

I've heard alot of quotes saying the works should have commenced from Manchester, the south will basically get what it wanted :|

Ironically, I reckon if the Victorians were building it today it would most likely be finished by now, there lies the problem, this Country lost it's greatness an awfully long time ago :(

A great opportunity missed.

Tim.
 
TitanTim said:
Ironically, I reckon if the Victorians were building it today it would most likely be finished by now, there lies the problem, this Country lost it's greatness an awfully long time ago

A great opportunity missed.
Click to expand...

That's true!

But I'm not sure how much use it would get - I'd far rather travel by car, in my own space, my own control of the temperature and choice of music. :D

Plus it's quicker given that I live over 30 miles from Euston so it would take me ages to get to it!
 
Mr Tidy said:
TitanTim said:
Ironically, I reckon if the Victorians were building it today it would most likely be finished by now, there lies the problem, this Country lost it's greatness an awfully long time ago

A great opportunity missed.
Click to expand...

That's true!

But I'm not sure how much use it would get - I'd far rather travel by car, in my own space, my own control of the temperature and choice of music. :D

Plus it's quicker given that I live over 30 miles from Euston so it would take me ages to get to it!
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I think more people would use a fast, clean, punctual value for money train service with capacity, I would but I wouldn't at the moment, think users have moved away from trains due to poor service. Like you would rather use the car these days.

Tim.
 
Last few times I flew to Manchester. Was £70 return compared to about £250 for a train ticket. Madness.
 
pvr said:
Last few times I flew to Manchester. Was £70 return compared to about £250 for a train ticket. Madness.
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I know, crazy, so long as you don't mind sitting on a plane full of British tourists :lol:

Tim.
 
I may have this wrong, but now the 'northern link' of the HS2 has been scrapped are we not just going to get a £5,000,000,000,000 train line from London to Birmingham?
There has been a perfectly adequate train line from Marylebone to New Street for decades (the chiltern line). The zillions of public money seems to just be paying for another one (going a slightly different way) and being 10 minutes quicker.

So Roland (sorry Rishi) is sweetening the blow by announcing the money saved is being spent on upgrading the pennine route, basically Manchester to Hull. Who the feck goes from Manchester to Hull on a regular basis? OK maybe about 100 people.

He 'announced' it today, but there is absolutely no timeline involved.

My town has been 'allocated funds' for a brand new sports complex and swimming pool, out of the bullsh*t "levelling up" fund. That was last year. There has been nothing done at all by the County, or District Councils, so far. No plans (apart from the 'vision' ones which got the funding).
The irony is that we have a perfectly good sports centre and swimming pool. We don't need to spend £500,000,000 of public money on new ones with more glass!

Sorry to anyone who works for the Gov, but our central Gov, County and District Govs couldn't organise a shag in a brothel, or a pi*s-up in a brewery. They would be good at spending millions trying, but would ultimately fail.

Then the Tories will lose the next election and the lefties will spend even more public money trying and failing aswell!
 
Pondrew said:
I may have this wrong, but now the 'northern link' of the HS2 has been scrapped are we not just going to get a £5,000,000,000,000 train line from London to Birmingham?
There has been a perfectly adequate train line from Marylebone to New Street for decades (the chiltern line). The zillions of public money seems to just be paying for another one (going a slightly different way) and being 10 minutes quicker.

So Roland (sorry Rishi) is sweetening the blow by announcing the money saved is being spent on upgrading the pennine route, basically Manchester to Hull. Who the feck goes from Manchester to Hull on a regular basis? OK maybe about 100 people.

He 'announced' it today, but there is absolutely no timeline involved.

My town has been 'allocated funds' for a brand new sports complex and swimming pool, out of the bullsh*t "levelling up" fund. That was last year. There has been nothing done at all by the County, or District Councils, so far. No plans (apart from the 'vision' ones which got the funding).
The irony is that we have a perfectly good sports centre and swimming pool. We don't need to spend £500,000,000 of public money on new ones with more glass!

Sorry to anyone who works for the Gov, but our central Gov, County and District Govs couldn't organise a shag in a brothel, or a pi*s-up in a brewery. They would be good at spending millions trying, but would ultimately fail.

Then the Tories will lose the next election and the lefties will spend even more public money trying and failing aswell!
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Yes basically the ultra modern HS2 train will transfer to the Flying Scotsman on the current ancient mainline, think it might be at Streethay in Lichfield, Staffs which will then chug its way to Crewe and Manchester.

Listening to Sunak today at the Party Conference, trying not to feel ill, I just wasn't feeling all the fantastic other transport projects HS2 funds will be diverted to. The money I fear will just get diverted away to other crisis that will pop up under this Government, probably some of which will be used to prop up bankrupt Local Authorities such as Birmingham trying to keep services going on fresh air.

Tim.
 
TitanTim said:
Listening to Sunak today at the Party Conference, trying not to feel ill, I just wasn't feeling all the fantastic other transport projects HS2 funds will be diverted to. The money I fear will just get diverted away to other crisis that will pop up under this Government, probably some of which will be used to prop up bankrupt Local Authorities such as Birmingham trying to keep services going on fresh air.
Click to expand...

Listening to Roland today; I took it as a desperate attempt to try and keep the 'Northerners' on board, as there is an election looming.
It is blatantly obvious that in this day and age, they will do anything to try desperately to keep in power. It's great for them, because they make promises that will never need paying for until they are getting their (considerable) payouts and working for business as 'consultants' and raking it in.
Make a promise today then kick the can down the road for years until it's someone else's problem. Then someone else comes along and overturns those promises (which the first lot were elected for) then blames the previous lot for being stupid. And so it goes on ad infinitum. That seems to sum politics up for me.
 
So as Staffs will lose HS2 not all is lost as its just been announced a line from Leek to Stoke-on-Trent closed 66 years ago will now be reopened with diverted funds from HS2 :rofl:

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/leek-stoke-train-line-reopen-8804679

Really, its only a few miles and you can take a bus for £1.50 :lol:

Just need to wait 10 years though :roll:

Tim.
 
Well, of no use to me, I would need to get to London from Devon first. Took my daughter to Birmingham yesterday, took 9 hours there and back total, with wife sharing the driving. All because of the bl**dy strikes. My son lives in Japan and loves using their trains. Quick, on time and clean, perhaps we should get them over here to show us how to do it properly :thumbsup:
 
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