How to avoid "hairy" moments in an ///M?

[Dreamer]

Its a pussycat :wink: Just keep the DSC on and it wont let you get in any trouble.
I find the rear end hardly lets go unless the roads damp or very uneven. I do try drive very smoothly though. In short It has a LOT of grip.

My old S2000 was my first RWD lesson, which makes the M seem very safe and progressive!!

 

[exdos]

When driving any car in any conditions always think in terms of keeping the car "balanced" and get the loadshifting done before you make the car change direction. Likewise, think of your tyres having a limit of grip in accordance with the "Friction circle".

 

[jimmybell]

I took it relatively easy when i first got mine, flooring it only in straight lines (on empty long stretches), but now im starting to push it a bit more im starting to find the edge of the DSC.

Id not worry too much, DSC very quickly stops you doing stupid stuff. Its pretty tricky to get it to spin the wheels with DSC on.

DSC off is the polar opposite though, different car entirely. The car inspires confidence with incredible amounts of grip (curved motorway onramps are great fun..) but im still apprehensive about suddenly discovering the limit of grip without DSC!

If concerned, a 3.0 is not a bad idea at all - i did wonder after buying if i should of done that, but things like CDV and my excessive caution with SWMBO in the passenger seat means i've been pretty careful. The car is fast enough to scare you into being cautious

 

[StevenH72]

If concerned, a 3.0 is not a bad idea at all - i did wonder after buying if i should of done that, but things like CDV and my excessive caution with SWMBO in the passenger seat means i've been pretty careful. The car is fast enough to scare you into being cautious

Well the ///M will be a weekend toy for me, so I'll only be driving it in nice dry conditions and I'll be keeping DSC on until I'm familiar with the car etc. Listening to the views on here I think I'll be OK.

I do sometimes consider getting the 3.0, but two factors are putting me off: 1) I'm not a huge fan of the styling on the 3.0 and 2) If I do like the 3.0 I know that I'll want the ///M before long, so it will cost me more money to get a 3.0 and then upgrade rather than going straight for the ///M.

I'll do a car limit day when I get the ///M and be sensible. Sorted

 

[teamemmenracing]

Its a pussycat :wink: Just keep the DSC on and it wont let you get in any trouble.
I find the rear end hardly lets go unless the roads damp or very uneven. I do try drive very smoothly though. In short It has a LOT of grip.

My old S2000 was my first RWD lesson, which makes the M seem very safe and progressive!!

I agree ..... the M is a pussycat until you stand on its tail ....
its as easy to drive as a ford modeo
Take it in stages, one step at a time.....

 

[jimmybell]

Yeah - i thought the same about the 3.0 until i passed (and was passed by!) a few going at full pelt down the M4 and realised it's not to be choked at (surprisingly fast..), still very quick (though obviously i chased and flew past in the M but still...) I also remember saying to myself how nice it looked in Blue, but yeah. The M is a special beast, gotta drive it hard to make it go fast but it happily does so.

It's perfectly happy driving around normally like a mondeo, just a bit tiring in traffic. Really needs some nice country lanes or a road trip to open it up.

 

[T1berious]

I've had mine for a few years now and had all the same concerns but as others have said, take it easy while you're getting used to it and once you're comfy with it take it either on a track day or explore the performance envelope on some quiet B roads within the limits of the law .

For the record I've had mild slides with the DSC on on damp roads \ roundabouts (all in the name of education).

"Please drink drive responsibly"

 

[abar121]

Don't skimp on tyres. Take driver training, then do a wet track day or two, preferably at Bedford or similar.

Don't rely on the DSC. Balance the car properly at all times. Enjoy

 

[Jembo]

You'll be just fine provided you don't drive it like you stole it & don't throw it into a corner at a speed where you're not convinced you know (a) what it's going to do (b) if it goes tits up no space for a disaster recovery plan.

My motto's if in doubt, don't... if there's an exit strategy execute

 

[Adam D]

The M is tame and won't do anything you don't tell it to do, like anything moderately powerful and rear wheel drive don't jab the throttle unless you heading in a reasonably straight line and be aware of weight transfer when barrelling into a corner under hard braking (back end will lighten up).

Years of owning a turbocharged 200sx from 20-23 with no driver aids soon taught me to respect rwd in low grip situations; where in a fwd you can scrabble away, getting a tankslapper on joining a damp NSL from a slip road isn't as fun as it might sound.

Compared to the 3.0 Z4 the M has more mechanical grip and doesn't like to spin up the inside wheel since it has a limited slip diff, the standard tyres are better than the Bridgestone RFTs.

Go for the M, a car limits day as recommended is very worthwhile.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

Years of owning a turbocharged 200sx from 20-23 with no driver aids soon taught me to respect rwd

Same here! my old 200 gave me a great understanding of RWD & I can honestly say I haven't had as much fun in any other car since...I very rarely drove it in a straight line it just wanted to go sideways everywhere, great fun!

 

[StevenH72]

Tyres are definitely an area I don't plan to skimp on and I think there are enouh tyre related threads on here for me to make a wise decisions.

I'm also going to do a car limits day. I like the wet track day at Bedford idea. I might familiarise myself with the car for a while before I do that though. I'm planning to only use the car in the dry so no immediate rush, but I can see the benefits on learning the cars limits in the wet...just in case.

Again, thanks for the advice guys!

 

[IKZ4]

I echo the other points about approaching corners. You could be travelling much faster than you're used to in a shorter distance of road, and despite it being a small car it's no lightweight. Mass transfer and overcooking it into corners are the main things I would watch for, especially on downhill runs. Enjoy it.

 

[GraemeP]

I think you have as much probability of un-sticking a 3.0 as you do an M derivative to be honest. If you are new to driving rwd then you should use a controlled environment to feel what happens when oversteer occurs, how to read the signs, and how to react. Lots of people grip a car wheel so tight they don't feel the signs, and when the car breaks away they panic and back out of the power and counter steer. That's when you find the car grips and f**ks of into the scenery in the opposite direction!

As pointed out earlier, get someone like Andy Walsh to show you the signs, or if you don't have deep pockets find someone experienced, and go to a car park one wet evening. Trackdays aren't good for learning oversteer generally. Lots of TDOs frown upon it, and you are normally travelling at high speeds.

PS, I'm new here and don't own a Z4 - so feel free to take what I say and discard it!!

Rgds
Gray

 

[LeeZ4MR]

go to a car park one wet evening.

That's how I learnt tbh there used to be an unused deserted car park near where I used to live & I just practiced sliding my car round in that, I know it's a crude way of doing it but it helped me understand my cars behaviour & probably is the reason I still enjoy RWD so much!

 

[Jembo]

go to a car park one wet evening.

That's how I learnt tbh there used to be an unused deserted car park near where I used to live & I just practiced sliding my car round in that, I know it's a crude way of doing it but it helped me understand my cars behaviour & probably is the reason I still enjoy RWD so much!

They were the good old days, remember them well.

Get caught doing that now & it's not only a slap on the wrists but possibly an ASBO car order - don't know specific name but something about causing a nuisance in a car

 

[StevenH72]

PS, I'm new here and don't own a Z4 - so feel free to take what I say and discard it!!

Rgds
Gray

Exactly, what do you know....p**s off!!!

haha, only kidding, thanks for the advice Gray, especially the steering wheel tip, I'll try to make sure I lighten up the grip

 

[GraemeP]

No worries - wet low grip environments give you the safest way to learn. Some people (i was one) find it hard to not back completely out of the throttle when the car breaks if you aren't expecting it. I had a good instructor with me and my caterham get me to hold the wheel just between thumb and forefinger. You feel the steering go though heavy and little resistance, and letting go of the wheel when it starts to oversteer, the car wants to counter steer on it's own.

Of all the cars I have owned the supercharged MX5 and Caterham (when tyres were cold or road was wet) were the easiest to feel, and to induce power oversteer.

But trail braking the Caterham into camp and quarry at 'combe with a delicate 4 wheel drift in to the bend and out to a wide exit is the most satisfying!

 

[GraemeP]

go to a car park one wet evening.

That's how I learnt tbh there used to be an unused deserted car park near where I used to live & I just practiced sliding my car round in that, I know it's a crude way of doing it but it helped me understand my cars behaviour & probably is the reason I still enjoy RWD so much!

They were the good old days, remember them well.

Get caught doing that now & it's not only a slap on the wrists but possibly an ASBO car order - don't know specific name but something about causing a nuisance in a car

Agreed, you need to be careful, but better to do this than cause an accident on the road. Car control day is best bet, but not always accessible.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

go to a car park one wet evening.

That's how I learnt tbh there used to be an unused deserted car park near where I used to live & I just practiced sliding my car round in that, I know it's a crude way of doing it but it helped me understand my cars behaviour & probably is the reason I still enjoy RWD so much!

They were the good old days, remember them well.

Get caught doing that now & it's not only a slap on the wrists but possibly an ASBO car order - don't know specific name but something about causing a nuisance in a car

I agree it would be seriously frowned upon nowadays, but me & my friend in his RWD saff cossie used to practice to try to improve our car control, as you say they were the good old days!