How lucky was Grosjean!

[patriot66]

Back in the early seventies Cevert, Koinigg and Revson all died needlessly when going through or over the Armco. Cevert and Koinigg were decapitated in the process as I'm sure Grosjean would've been but for his Halo.
Jochen Rindt went off on the entry to Parabolica at Monza in '70 and the front of his Gold Leaf Lotus 72 dug in against the bottom Armco rail tearing the front end off and killing him, making him the only posthumous F1 World Champion.
We don't want to see that in F1 some 50 years later

 

[Flyingfifer]

If the cars had no HALO device, then it probably wouldn't have 'failed' so much, but then the outcome would have been much worse.

100%, if not for the halo I suspect we would have had a decapitated driver
I saw this image and its astounding that the HALO is still intact

Looking at the aerial shots during the red flag, it did seem to me that the barriers came out at a sharper angle, wrong layout than I'd expect.

The section he hit covers what looks like an access road between T3 and T10, I initially thought this might be part of an alternative layout but it doesnt look like thats the case from what I can find online and seeing the road itself its not suitable for that.

Part of the problem is that the crash happened in a very strange place - essentially a third of the way down a long straight. all the run off and tecpro barriers are at the corners and braking zones.

Again totally right, just after T3 which is a high speed corner onto a straight, its highly unlikely for crashes to occur there and certainly not at the angles involved in this case, Grosjean hit the barrier at an almost 90 degree angle although his trajectory was more shallow than that.

In terms of the movement just prior to the crash, this video is excellent in terms of looking at the situation as it presented itself and possible reasons for things, personally I don't think Grosjean saw that Kvyat was on his right side, as mentioned in the video the wing mirror probably didnt have visibility of the car or he may have misjudged the distance involved, thinking he had the space. Ultimately only Grosjean can say and thankfully, he can.
[youtube]Y_Gu5WBM3ss[/youtube]

thats how i read it... either go left (and off the track) to avoid some slow cars ahead, or go right. there was almost a gap too. some might argue that a better driver would have known what cars were around him and avoided the incident.

I think that's a bit unfair, remember that this all happened across maybe 3 seconds at 140ish mph, the video above goes through possible rationale but as mentioned I'd guess that he didnt see Kvyat and it was a bad racing incident that is a testament to the engineering that goes into safety.

 

[patriot66]

You can't stop racers racing each other hammer and tongs, but you can install Recticel/SAFER barrier everywhere. F1 has got very deep pockets

 

[buzyg]

Looks like he swerved across & chopped off the other guys nose?
Rob

thats how i read it... either go left (and off the track) to avoid some slow cars ahead, or go right. there was almost a gap too. some might argue that a better driver would have known what cars were around him and avoided the incident.

Yep. We need to hear whether he knew the other car was there at all. One answer leads to questions of driver's judgement. The other to questions on improving rearward lateral visibility. A modern road car would likely have been warning the driver of the impending collision. Not that I am a fan of such intervention by electronic devices, but certainly worth discussion.

 

[brillomaster]

Looks like he swerved across & chopped off the other guys nose?
Rob

thats how i read it... either go left (and off the track) to avoid some slow cars ahead, or go right. there was almost a gap too. some might argue that a better driver would have known what cars were around him and avoided the incident.

Yep. We need to hear whether he knew the other car was there at all. One answer leads to questions of driver's judgement. The other to questions on improving rearward lateral visibility. A modern road car would likely have been warning the driver of the impending collision. Not that I am a fan of such intervention by electronic devices, but certainly worth discussion.

its an interesting point though - in endurance racing and GT racing, almost all cars have rearward facing RADAR/LIDAR systems that alert drivers when faster cars are approaching from the rear, and allocate them a red/amber/green colour code depending on how fast they are approaching. And then a clear indication to the driver that their car is being passed, and on what side.

while in the daytime such a system might be seen as a bit much, in the night time when all you can see is a sea of headlights, its proved to be very useful to know if a car behind you is a slower GT car, or a much faster LMP1 car.

perhaps there wouldnt be such a need for this in F1 where all the cars are predominantly the same speed (no multi class racing) but perhaps some method of blind spot monitoring wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.

or at a simpler level, curve the wing mirror glass so it decreases the likelihood of blind spots?

 

[ph001]

Link?

 

[john-e89]

As I understand it the Halo is capable of withstanding the weight of 10 double decker buses and was designed to be able to stay in its correct shape long after an F1 car has made an instant full stop from full speed under a solid object after Jules Bianchi's car lifted the counter weight on a JCB telehandler without one. As said you can assume 99.99999% recurring that Grosjean wouldn’t have survived without it. Horrible incident.

 

[john-e89]

Looks like he swerved across & chopped off the other guys nose?
Rob

thats how i read it... either go left (and off the track) to avoid some slow cars ahead, or go right. there was almost a gap too. some might argue that a better driver would have known what cars were around him and avoided the incident.

Yes just watched the video posted with Karun. I’d say Grosjean was thinking Kimi might enter back on track over the rumble strip and possibly spear out of control into him so took avoiding action not realising Kvyat was there. Being critical which is so easy here and not being a racing driver but i’d have to say his steering angle was too aggressive and unnecessary. But as I say that’s so easy to say here and not being there in Grosjean's seat. I just glad everyone is ok.

 

[Mr Tidy]

I didn't read this thread until after I had watched the highlights, but having seen the thread title watching the crash was slightly less horiffic!

Even so I was still mighty relieved to see him walking away, and find it remarkable that his injuries seem to be so slight.

I wish he could buy a lottery ticket for me.

 

[exdos]

Firstly, I am delighted and so relieved to see Romain Grosjean escape that horror crash yesterday which I watched "live".

Unfortunately, Grosjean has long been out of his depth in F1 and has been a liability to himself and others for quite some time. I was hoping that his impending departure from the Haas team would come before something nasty happened.

This article, written in July 2019 describes what many F1 fans have thought for many seasons: https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/07/12/inside-line-time-to-ditch-grosjean-before-he-hurts-himself/

I totally agree with Steve Jones who said on TV yesterday that Grosjean has used up all his 9 lives and should walk away from motorsport. I wish Grosjean nothing but good fortune for a long and successful future with his family.

 

[brillomaster]

Link?

If you mean the smart rear view camera, then see here

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gmauthority.com/blog/2013/03/corvette-racings-secret-weapon-is-the-pratt-miller-radar-camera/amp/

First used on a corvette back in 2013, but now appears on most gt cars. Invaluable in the early morning hours at le mans, when drivers are already sleep deprived.

 

[john-e89]

Firstly, I am delighted and so relieved to see Romain Grosjean escape that horror crash yesterday which I watched "live".

Unfortunately, Grosjean has long been out of his depth in F1 and has been a liability to himself and others for quite some time. I was hoping that his impending departure from the Haas team would come before something nasty happened.

This article, written in July 2019 describes what many F1 fans have thought for many seasons: https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/07/12/inside-line-time-to-ditch-grosjean-before-he-hurts-himself/

I totally agree with Steve Jones who said on TV yesterday that Grosjean has used up all his 9 lives and should walk away from motorsport. I wish Grosjean nothing but good fortune for a long and successful future with his family.

Absolutely....nice guy, tries his best but is not suited to F1, he simply cannot get on top of it, being brutal he ought to have been out years ago as his driving record will show. He’s never been much better than Pastor crashtonaldo in reality. Time to let Mick Schumacher have his seat and see what he can do.

 

[-Tom-]

Some really interesting points about this.

You could even pick the situation apart way before the incident. If the drivers respected track limits more, Stroll wouldn’t have just sent it off the track to the right, gained / kept distance and rejoined in the manner he did. Arguably he began to bunch up a chunk of that pack, and then the uncertainty of what Raik was going to do on the left.

Hideous impact, it left me feeling sick until they finally released the images of him getting out.

 

[john-e89]

Some really interesting points about this.

You could even pick the situation apart way before the incident. If the drivers respected track limits more, Stroll wouldn’t have just sent it off the track to the right, gained / kept distance and rejoined in the manner he did. Arguably he began to bunch up a chunk of that pack, and then the uncertainty of what Raik was going to do on the left.

Hideous impact, it left me feeling sick until they finally released the images of him getting out.

It’s a drivers job to push the track limits to as far as they can before a telling off from the stewards though Tom, they either have to be told or physical barriers put in place to reign them in, asking them out of courtesy is like asking Dracula not to drink from the blood bank.