Hillary and her health care plan.......hmmmmm

20ducks

Elite
Subject: Hillary's health plan


This was sent from Canada to a friend in the States.

I saw on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.


First of all:

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the h ealth care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-i mbursement

4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.

7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears .

9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.

14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered but the health care system.

I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the States you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.

Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.

Interesting perspective, don't you think?
Greg
 
Health care is like everything thing in life.... There are people who "have" it and then there are the "have-nots".

The number of "have-nots" is quite high in the US. I worked at The University of Rochester Medical Center and know what I am talking about. Managed care has managed to prevent a lot of people from getting health care in the US. I used to spend at least an hour (and sometimes two) a day on the phone not seeing patients and trying to get HMO approval.

I have also worked at the UWO/LHSC (University Medical Center) here in Canada. There is no comparison. Yes, we have wait lists. However, in the US you have a LOT of people on no-lists http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/healthmed ... lthins.htm - there are more Americans without health insurance than there are Canadians in Canada!!

People who live in glass houses....

Can I still visit the US and spend my Canadian $$ to help the US economy? :poke: :fuelfire:

You can come to Canada anytime even though you criticize our nation.
 
This wasn't meant to critisize the Canadian health system...by no means. It was a swipe on a secular progressive liberal's notion of how to fix the US health care dilemma.

btw, I do not know of any of my friends that do not have health care insurance. Funny how some will earn health care and others think of it as an entitlement.
 
I recognize that this can be a volatile topic with strong opinions on both sides. Let keep this thread to a civilized discussion. I for one would be interested in the experiences of our neighbors to the North with their health care system.... :)
 
WLH said:
I know, you are so civilized... :)

Hey old chaps, anyone for a cup of tea? ;)

Yeah, very interesting points there (on both sides). Am very happy to let this ride and see what views we get... just keep in mind that this is the exact sort of topic that used to get out of hand on the z4um. I think we're better than that though (I hope ;) )
 
or really care what the health care plans are in the US but I can say without a doubt that the examples given from "a friend in Canada" do not even come close to matching my own experiences and those of my family and friends.

I have been a frequent user of the health care system here (I have ankylosing spondylitis if you care to look it up) and I have no problems at all with the treatment I've received. This includes seeing my family doctor, at least 4 different specialists (2 of them very regularly), getting MRI's done, shoulder surgery, etc. etc.

Yes, there was a wait time invovled but no where near the times being stated by this "friend."

My mother received excellent treatment as she died of lung and bone cancer (from smoking) and my step-father's bowel cancer was treated well also. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to pay extra fees, and those are usually for getting forms filled out not required by law (which are not covered and should not be IMO).

Some of the points made in that rant are just untrue. There is no "talk" I know of that fat people should not be treated. If someone has a blockage in their leg and "they won't do it" it's not punishment for being a smoker - there is likely a medical reason to not do the procedure.

As I said I don't know or care what Hillary is or isn't proposing, but please leave us out of you political squabbles thanks. :wink:
 
The joke is; American tax payers contribute more to Medicare than we pay to our medical plans through tax per capita. BTW - no one in Canada pays more than 48.25% Marginal tax (last dollar earned). Long and short of it - American medical professionals are grossly over paid.

BTW - My wife is under strict guidlines to get me to an American hospital if I become ill and not able to communicate for myself - I've seen too many of us regulars not make it over the past few years. Our two tier system works extrmely well however in getting the wealthy first in line for all procedures.
 
im not even pretending to know all the ins-and-outs of Hillary's suggested healthcare plan,
but if any of you have actually had to deal with the current system... i mean reeeaally deal with the system... its nothing to be satisfied with. I for one think its time for a change...

realistically, this forum is populated with generally wealthy individuals... what about the people who aren't wealthy?!? i have friends who will be paying mounds of bs healthbills for the remainder of their lives because of this rediculous system that we currently have in place...

seriously, on a topic like this could you really expect to read much other than skewed responses?
 
I am a US Army veteran and have first hand experience in receiving health care from the federal government. It is not what the private sector provides. I earned options of using my veteran benefits/government provided health care and I pay my fair share for private health care. Guess what is better for me.

btw, one consideration is the attitude of entitlements. Anyone care to address that perspective?
 
Ah, an interesting topic for debate and something sure to come up quite often until next November.
Working in medicine/research has taught me quite a few things and hopefully I can bring some eveness to this debate.
Yes, in general, wealthy people have access to the best care in medicine either because they have really good insurance or they can just afford to pay for it out-of-pocket. For the rest of us who aren't that rich, we are either stuck with paying high premiums for personal coverage, if our employer does not provide it, or usually an HMO that our employers do offer. Now depending on your employer, and more importantly the number of employees, you can get some really great medical coverage. Take me for example, I don't make much but I have some of the best health care benefits in the medical/research industry which, in my opinion, offsets what my collegues make in increased pay. I know that if I were ever seriously injured or were to contract a chronic or terminal condition I would receive the best care and would pay next to nothing for it.
Unfortunately, most HMOs and PPOs that the general public has contains so many omissions and clauses that it can be a nightmare for most if you get seriously ill. Not only do you have to deal with your illness but you also have to fight your own insurance company just to get them to pay for what they're supposed to over. Now I'm not sure about other countries, but I do know that in the US most insurance companies automatically deny 90+% of all claims physicians and hospitals bill for, even if it's a covered expense, and I know enfield feels my pain on this one. The reason being simply money. How much money is a hospital/physician willing to pay a secretary to recover the costs of an office visit/procedure/hospitilization? At a certain point it becomes cheaper to take it as a loss than to pursue the claim. Insurance companies know this and use it to their advantage to increase their bottom lines. Now we all know this is not ethical, but unfortunately that's how big the business of health care has become.
Another major issue is dropping coverage. On more than one occassion I have seen a collegue who has had a clean bill of health for decades, and paid his premiums on time, contract a serious illness like cancer and have his/her insurance company drop them. Why can they do this, because when you sign the contract there is language provided for this underhanded move. Now granted, if you belong to a large employer it's less likely to happen, but for smaller companies this happens all the time and you almost have no legal recourse.
As for entitlement, 20ducks has a good point. It seems that a lot of people think they should be entitled to free healthcare, as well as many other things, without having to pay for it or work for it. If you don't believe me go to a local chain pharmacy late at night near a major suburban city. You'll see plenty of Medicaid people who are perfectly fine to work and earn a decent living but choose not to since they can get everything from housing to food to medicine, especially narcotics, for free. When you ask them why do they choose to do this they tell you that they believe they are entitled to it. Now I'm not saying everyone who is on Medicaid is a junky or abuses the system, but there is a good majority of people who do abuse the system and it takes away from those who really need it.
Now we all know the current system is broken. Just look at the budgets of any major hospital in any metropolitan area. Nobody is making money, and most can't even break even. So what happens, tax money is used to bail the hospitals out. So no matter how you look at it, whether we go with some form of managed care or not, tax payers are footing the bill. The way I see it, managed healthcare for the general public is no better or worse than the current system it's just a different way of looking at the same problem to see which is more palatable.
Sorry for the long rant but ten years of this stuff tends to build up some opinion and hopefully it's somewhat balanced.
 
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