High mileage m
- Thread starter Mrh1376
- Start date
Service intervals and inspections I and II are important especially for high miles - well maintained examples can sail past the 100k milestone. As for price, obviously as the mileage climbs prices reflect this, however condition is a big factor too. A very clean well looked after Z4MR on 78k miles went for around £13k recently - that was a private sale, also the M coupe prices are higher then the M roadster. Its difficult to give precise prices because of the rarity of these cars, you need to factor in colour and specification too
1066 Country
It’s highly recommended to replace the shells around 100k on the S54 engine as a preventative measure, so suggest you check in the paperwork this has been done / factor into your negotiations
This at a reputed centre such as Brystones is about £1k
This at a reputed centre such as Brystones is about £1k
A complete 'service history' doesn't tell you anything other than it had the bare minimum spent on it. You want to be looking for interim oil & filter changes, MOT advisories (e.g. have 'corroded rear brake pipes', or 'light oil leak from diff' appeared for a few years running?)
Can't help with price, but the 'common' things that will need replacing around 100k miles if they haven't already been done will be springs & dampers, diff (mine got noisy at 78k and was replaced under warranty), rod bearings, VANOS, clutch & flywheel (mine went at 140k miles), cooling pack can become a little ineffective (gradual radiator impacts & general crud), air-con evaporator.
If any of these have been done, then great. If not, it's not a deal breaker, just go into the deal with your eyes open, and maybe take the opportunity to 'upgrade' some parts if they need replacing anyway.
Mine's on 163k miles BTW, and is spending some time off the road getting the engine 'rejuvenised'
Can't help with price, but the 'common' things that will need replacing around 100k miles if they haven't already been done will be springs & dampers, diff (mine got noisy at 78k and was replaced under warranty), rod bearings, VANOS, clutch & flywheel (mine went at 140k miles), cooling pack can become a little ineffective (gradual radiator impacts & general crud), air-con evaporator.
If any of these have been done, then great. If not, it's not a deal breaker, just go into the deal with your eyes open, and maybe take the opportunity to 'upgrade' some parts if they need replacing anyway.
Mine's on 163k miles BTW, and is spending some time off the road getting the engine 'rejuvenised'
You need to factor in the above. Obviously these cars are 12-14 years old now and most need some maintenance.
Preventative maintenance - rod bearings, Engine and Gearbox mounts, Engine Bolts are things that spring to mind as things that should be done. The mounts are rubber and one of the engine mounts lives behind the heat shield, most probably need doing at this age. There was a recent vid I watched on the E92 M3, similar mounts 2012 car had them done at the same time as the shells. They were completely shot 60k car obviously 6 years newer than the oldest Z.
Anyway if you get it all done at the same time its not much more roughly £1500 total. Can really transform the car too so worth doing.
Inspections can be expensive £550ish for INSI £850ish for INSII depends where you go. Many third party non specialist garages will tick and inspection and not do it, its not a standard service and the shims are usually checked for tolerance and I would be looking for evidence of this.
Generally service schedule should start with a run in, then 12k per oil service or 2 years, Inspections are usually done every 25-30k and are mileage dependent although many are done early. Many dont tend to get to the mileage so time is important. Even at 100k its only 7k per year if a 2006 plate. Lots of paper work is key, hopefully over than under serviced.
Other things to bare in mind are vanos although there aren't lots of vanos failures, diffs seem to becoming more common item that needs attention. Obvious stuff like tyres -500-1000 depending on preference. Brake and disks are around £600 an axel £1200 for both. Also corroded brake lines which are also common.
Same with suspension, im sure they will be fine but it will probably be tired. A lot of cars are lowered and can make the suspensions shocks leak. Springs are prone to break etc Mine leaked at 60k and had the rears replaced.
Generally people tend to buy and sell when maintenance needs doing so keep your eye out. If you can find one that has had the maintenance done then happy days but need to do all the above you could easily spend 3k which will ensure the car is good to go but you could possibly get into a better lower miler.
Cosmetically things to look for: the front bumper will probably have been painted at some point, they are low and prone to chips. Windscreens tend to get well chipped too again because its low, fangs on the front bumper tend to get damaged and the skirts tend to get road rash. Other things to look for, rubber between the drivers door and rear window. They tend to loose the coating and can look a bit unsightly. Interior wise common faults are wear on the drivers bolster and the seat belt can be slow to retract, easy to sort with some soapy water, generally just needs a clean. There have been a few with broken glove boxes, and the aluminium/piano black trims can get marked and scratched easily.
Depends on the budget. Ive seen 100k cars for sale for 16k one sold earlier in the year for 15k with all the above done. Fairly certain there was a car with 135k that was for sale for £14k. Obviously the sold prices are hard to know but say 10-15% wiggle room depending on the condition.
In all honesty these dont really have any big issues. As long as they have been serviced correctly and preventative maintenance is either about to be done or done they could easily soldier on. There are no chassis issues, no real rust issues (maybe the boot but not seen many Ms with corrosion issues) Engine is really strong for its calibre.
Common sense and a bit of knowledge could bag a great car for a good deal lower than the going rate. Non of the above is a deal breaker just worth knowing so its not a nasty surprise. Low milage cars are really sort after and can sell for up to 30k so you could bag one for half the price, they are so rare with only 550 cars originally coming to the UK that its a great opportunity in this day and age of monotonous vehicles to get a rare car not often seen for hot hatch money.
Preventative maintenance - rod bearings, Engine and Gearbox mounts, Engine Bolts are things that spring to mind as things that should be done. The mounts are rubber and one of the engine mounts lives behind the heat shield, most probably need doing at this age. There was a recent vid I watched on the E92 M3, similar mounts 2012 car had them done at the same time as the shells. They were completely shot 60k car obviously 6 years newer than the oldest Z.
Anyway if you get it all done at the same time its not much more roughly £1500 total. Can really transform the car too so worth doing.
Inspections can be expensive £550ish for INSI £850ish for INSII depends where you go. Many third party non specialist garages will tick and inspection and not do it, its not a standard service and the shims are usually checked for tolerance and I would be looking for evidence of this.
Generally service schedule should start with a run in, then 12k per oil service or 2 years, Inspections are usually done every 25-30k and are mileage dependent although many are done early. Many dont tend to get to the mileage so time is important. Even at 100k its only 7k per year if a 2006 plate. Lots of paper work is key, hopefully over than under serviced.
Other things to bare in mind are vanos although there aren't lots of vanos failures, diffs seem to becoming more common item that needs attention. Obvious stuff like tyres -500-1000 depending on preference. Brake and disks are around £600 an axel £1200 for both. Also corroded brake lines which are also common.
Same with suspension, im sure they will be fine but it will probably be tired. A lot of cars are lowered and can make the suspensions shocks leak. Springs are prone to break etc Mine leaked at 60k and had the rears replaced.
Generally people tend to buy and sell when maintenance needs doing so keep your eye out. If you can find one that has had the maintenance done then happy days but need to do all the above you could easily spend 3k which will ensure the car is good to go but you could possibly get into a better lower miler.
Cosmetically things to look for: the front bumper will probably have been painted at some point, they are low and prone to chips. Windscreens tend to get well chipped too again because its low, fangs on the front bumper tend to get damaged and the skirts tend to get road rash. Other things to look for, rubber between the drivers door and rear window. They tend to loose the coating and can look a bit unsightly. Interior wise common faults are wear on the drivers bolster and the seat belt can be slow to retract, easy to sort with some soapy water, generally just needs a clean. There have been a few with broken glove boxes, and the aluminium/piano black trims can get marked and scratched easily.
Depends on the budget. Ive seen 100k cars for sale for 16k one sold earlier in the year for 15k with all the above done. Fairly certain there was a car with 135k that was for sale for £14k. Obviously the sold prices are hard to know but say 10-15% wiggle room depending on the condition.
In all honesty these dont really have any big issues. As long as they have been serviced correctly and preventative maintenance is either about to be done or done they could easily soldier on. There are no chassis issues, no real rust issues (maybe the boot but not seen many Ms with corrosion issues) Engine is really strong for its calibre.
Common sense and a bit of knowledge could bag a great car for a good deal lower than the going rate. Non of the above is a deal breaker just worth knowing so its not a nasty surprise. Low milage cars are really sort after and can sell for up to 30k so you could bag one for half the price, they are so rare with only 550 cars originally coming to the UK that its a great opportunity in this day and age of monotonous vehicles to get a rare car not often seen for hot hatch money.
Tom, it's all useful info that you often provide however it reads as though any Z4M that someone buys needs all of the above doing: new suspension, new brakes, new tyres, new mounts and bushes throughout.
It kind of reads that if any car that you are looking at doesn't have these showing as new within the last 6-12 months then it needs to be heavily discounted because "they might need replacing" which i'd guess 9/10 buyers wouldn't bother replacing until they need replacing having got the money off the price.
Rod bearings aside, and well documented that it can vary significantly car-to-car but should probably be looked at changing at 80k onwards.
Hypothetically speaking say a car was advertised at a reasonable price with 75-80k miles on the clock, still on standard rod bearings but with evidence of regular oil changes and oil sampling showing nothing to be wary of - would you still expect £1000-1500 off the price to change the rod bearings?
Likewise, just because the car is potentially on original suspension (no proof of replacement in the last 13 years) however no signs of leaking dampers / perished bushes etc should the price reflect that it hasn't been done - despite not necessarily needing doing? Granted new would improve the car as it probably is tired at this age - but it doesn't need replacing... if that make sense? Should the onus be on the buyer or the seller?
It is a used car at the end of the day, approaching 13 years old as you state. At some point as a buyer (unless the seller is taking the mickey with the listing price) you have to just accept this and jump in at the deep end and change things over the course of your ownership. Buy new if all these things on a used car would seriously concern you?
I'll be honest, if you were to actually buy one using your principles, and document it I would accept what is said a bit more! But it's a constant almost copy/paste in response which is enough to put anyone off!
It kind of reads that if any car that you are looking at doesn't have these showing as new within the last 6-12 months then it needs to be heavily discounted because "they might need replacing" which i'd guess 9/10 buyers wouldn't bother replacing until they need replacing having got the money off the price.
Rod bearings aside, and well documented that it can vary significantly car-to-car but should probably be looked at changing at 80k onwards.
Hypothetically speaking say a car was advertised at a reasonable price with 75-80k miles on the clock, still on standard rod bearings but with evidence of regular oil changes and oil sampling showing nothing to be wary of - would you still expect £1000-1500 off the price to change the rod bearings?
Likewise, just because the car is potentially on original suspension (no proof of replacement in the last 13 years) however no signs of leaking dampers / perished bushes etc should the price reflect that it hasn't been done - despite not necessarily needing doing? Granted new would improve the car as it probably is tired at this age - but it doesn't need replacing... if that make sense? Should the onus be on the buyer or the seller?
It is a used car at the end of the day, approaching 13 years old as you state. At some point as a buyer (unless the seller is taking the mickey with the listing price) you have to just accept this and jump in at the deep end and change things over the course of your ownership. Buy new if all these things on a used car would seriously concern you?
I'll be honest, if you were to actually buy one using your principles, and document it I would accept what is said a bit more! But it's a constant almost copy/paste in response which is enough to put anyone off!
Mike.
I think most of the posts are there to point out that if you had the option of 2 cars, with similar mileage, but one with some recent, major work done, then we'd all go for the one with the bits done.
Doesn't mean we'd ask for, or get a discount on the one that didn't have that work done, but it would have to be factored in to the decision.
No difference than being due (but not overdue) an Inspection 2. I'm sure you'd rather buy one that had just had it done, than one where it's about 500 miles away from needing it. Same as tyre brand choice - and I know there can be a fair amount of snobbery - but if one car has decent 'max performance' tyres on (from any mid to top tier manufacturer) and the other has 'touring' Linglongs or Triangle, then you'd assume (possibly incorrectly - as they might have had a tight month) that the 2nd owner to have also been a bit 'tight fisted' about other bits of spending.
However, in Z4MC territory, you'd be lucky to find two cars of the spec you wanted, which were identical other than one major mechanical invoice
On the flip-side, buying a very low mileage example doesn't mean you won't have any problem - as some will have done short, but hard, mileage...and you only have the seller's word for how it was driven. It might have had one lady owner from new, but that might have been Sabine Schmitz
I think most of the posts are there to point out that if you had the option of 2 cars, with similar mileage, but one with some recent, major work done, then we'd all go for the one with the bits done.
Doesn't mean we'd ask for, or get a discount on the one that didn't have that work done, but it would have to be factored in to the decision.
No difference than being due (but not overdue) an Inspection 2. I'm sure you'd rather buy one that had just had it done, than one where it's about 500 miles away from needing it. Same as tyre brand choice - and I know there can be a fair amount of snobbery - but if one car has decent 'max performance' tyres on (from any mid to top tier manufacturer) and the other has 'touring' Linglongs or Triangle, then you'd assume (possibly incorrectly - as they might have had a tight month) that the 2nd owner to have also been a bit 'tight fisted' about other bits of spending.
However, in Z4MC territory, you'd be lucky to find two cars of the spec you wanted, which were identical other than one major mechanical invoice
On the flip-side, buying a very low mileage example doesn't mean you won't have any problem - as some will have done short, but hard, mileage...and you only have the seller's word for how it was driven. It might have had one lady owner from new, but that might have been Sabine Schmitz
Mike. said:
If you read the post I said at the end... None of the above is a deal breaker just worth knowing so its not a nasty surprise.
Knowing is the main point, no point going into something and not knowing the full picture. On a car that is over 100k I think you have more wiggle room because of the possible big expense, especially if there is limited paperwork. You could buy a car for 16k at 100k and quickly be at 20k... and since some really lovely cars have been sold recently at the 20-21k point with mid mileage and some tasty extras its worth baring in mind.
The car In question has 108k on the clock but has a very comprehensive history including rod bearings being done at 96k and vanos seals replaced the service before also gearbox and and diff oils being changed twice in its lifetime recent 4 new tyres and 4 wheel alignment ,boot door repaired /repainted by bmw under warranty. And much more. Asking price £15250.
Mrh1376 said:
Making all the right noises.
Tom’s comments are well founded, it’s not an AUDI or Volvo which seem to drive almost the same on 0 or 100,000 miles.
The difference a suspension & Bush refurb made on my 60k M which had a lot of use on the motorway was night & day, where I partly feel advances in tech & knowledge what to tweak have made a huge difference
It might be my weird view on things, but a car like this, spending time effort and money changing, upgrading and investing in sorting the car is part of the fun....no?! As long as the engine and gearbox is fine, then spending money on the other parts is a big part of the ownership experience. Buy a new car if you don’t want to do that.
Lol....I’ve bought 4 different exhausts since being on here. Technically you all owe me a fiver each!
Angelus666 said:
That is part of the fun but it probably isn’t worth investing that amount of time and effort into a high mileage Z4MC (unless bought from new).
If I wanted one to tinker I would get a sub 40,000 miler, put no more than 5,000 miles on it per annum and only opt for OEM+ mods.
If I wanted one to drive then higher mileage would make more sense as it will be cheaper and I would follow the ethos of buying on condition not mileage. However I certainly would not be investing into it. I’d keep it for a year or so and then sell on, ensuring that I didn’t lose a penny come resale.
Replacing bushes all over the car, dampers and springs etc just wouldn’t be worth it. Especially when the cost of a full suspension and brake overhaul, plus any other bits which you might not expect to need replacing +£15,000 buys you a nice appreciating modern classic.
Simon 3.2M
Senior member
As long as the engine and box are strong and the panels and paint are good, I wouldn't worry about much else.
