Help picking Z4 - N52 or M54???
- Thread starter Willbott
- Start date
Hi guys,
Sorry to bring up an old post but i was wondering whether im looking for the right model Z4 3.0. ?
How do i know if its an M?
I have seen a few on Autotrader that state M susspension, M steering wheel, M sports styling etc. Are this just add ons to a normal 3.0? Or does this mean its an M?
I know that the proper ////M z4's are twin exhausts and bigger engines etc but whats with the normal M?
Is the SE just a more comfort spec and the SI a sport spec and how do we know what comes with these specs as standard?
How many different 3.0 models are there? It would be great if someone could post it here so i know exactly what im after being new to searching for the perfect Z4 .
I wana make sure i get the best model available for my hard earned cash
£13k
Cheers lads
Ps. I take it ill be looking for a facelift model anyway with the increased performance for example?
Sorry to bring up an old post but i was wondering whether im looking for the right model Z4 3.0. ?
How do i know if its an M?
I have seen a few on Autotrader that state M susspension, M steering wheel, M sports styling etc. Are this just add ons to a normal 3.0? Or does this mean its an M?
I know that the proper ////M z4's are twin exhausts and bigger engines etc but whats with the normal M?
Is the SE just a more comfort spec and the SI a sport spec and how do we know what comes with these specs as standard?
How many different 3.0 models are there? It would be great if someone could post it here so i know exactly what im after being new to searching for the perfect Z4 .
I wana make sure i get the best model available for my hard earned cash
£13kCheers lads
Ps. I take it ill be looking for a facelift model anyway with the increased performance for example?
The proper M has the 3.2 engine, better steering, suspension, brakes and an LSD. Plus the styling - different bumpers and bonnet. Other than CAT D you're looking at £15.5k + for an M.
There have been M options from launch, but with the exception of the steering wheel and seats (I think that's all?) it is just BMW's annoying habbit of calling their sportier options M (which devalue the M division IMO). Facelift there were two options, the standard and the Si Sport - which has M style seats, steering wheel, a few extra BHP and better brakes (+ a couple other bits).
Have a look at the forum FAQ, if the answer you want isn't there then there are a few links that certainly will have the info.
Forum Official FAQ
No sure on the pricing, but if you can get a facelift Si Sport that'd be the one to go for.
There have been M options from launch, but with the exception of the steering wheel and seats (I think that's all?) it is just BMW's annoying habbit of calling their sportier options M (which devalue the M division IMO). Facelift there were two options, the standard and the Si Sport - which has M style seats, steering wheel, a few extra BHP and better brakes (+ a couple other bits).
Have a look at the forum FAQ, if the answer you want isn't there then there are a few links that certainly will have the info.
Forum Official FAQ
No sure on the pricing, but if you can get a facelift Si Sport that'd be the one to go for.
jamesbond said:
Better how?
N52 is more powerful, lighter and more fuel efficient.
Granted M54 sounds better.
Both are reliable engines. There hasnt been many reliability issues on the N52 posted here. Only 6 or 7 people on here I think have reported issues.
Personal preference plus I love the look of the Coupe!
Hello .. Z4 members
The member asked an opinion, to have the big picture the M54 is the most reliable (no potential ticking head issues etc)
and performs well to future mods etc .. in the big scheme of things the extra odd 30 BHP does not really mean much to be honest on day to day driving ..
if you have no plans for modding then great go for the N52 .. if you like modding and tuning etc go for the M54 if you would like more power out of you power plant
best regards
The member asked an opinion, to have the big picture the M54 is the most reliable (no potential ticking head issues etc)
and performs well to future mods etc .. in the big scheme of things the extra odd 30 BHP does not really mean much to be honest on day to day driving ..
if you have no plans for modding then great go for the N52 .. if you like modding and tuning etc go for the M54 if you would like more power out of you power plant
best regards
Hello
Disa issues are nothing .. just undo 2 bolts to check (15 min job max) one of the most easy jobs to check at home
VANOS on the M54 is the most reliable .. better then the potential for a head replacement on the n52
But as I said .. no plans for mods then go for the N52 (just take a chance with the NVA head issues) if you plan for mods and like forced induction and like a bullet proof engine go for the M54 .. the choice is yours
best regards
Disa issues are nothing .. just undo 2 bolts to check (15 min job max) one of the most easy jobs to check at home
VANOS on the M54 is the most reliable .. better then the potential for a head replacement on the n52
But as I said .. no plans for mods then go for the N52 (just take a chance with the NVA head issues) if you plan for mods and like forced induction and like a bullet proof engine go for the M54 .. the choice is yours
best regards
I know this is a very old post but seems to have taken on a new life.
Unread postby Steve84N » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:05 pm
M54 suffers from early VANOS failure and DISA issues...
35bhp is most definitely noticeable. You'll only beat 265bhp on an M54 with FI or very expensive NA mods.
Sorry, I have to disagree, same limited top speed and 0.2 secs difference in 0-60 mph. I defy anyone to notice that, unless the torque makes a real difference in performance (about which I have no experience). The M54 is one of the great BMW engines (imo-of course). Vanos failure sounds drastic but in reality what 99% of people are talking about is the gradual loss of efficiency of variable valve timing, which most drivers never even notice. The solution is very straightforward, with plenty of Viton replacement seal kits on the market at £25 or so. A decent home mechanic can handle the job of fitting the seals in a few hours, with lots of instruction and photos on this very forum. The same goes for the DISA (which of course IS a disaster if the pin comes out and goes into the engine) It's a 10 minute job to take it off and another 10 mins to fit a replacement kit which is designed differently and keeps the pin captively locked in place. With some of the horrors I have encountered in my past car history I wish all engines could have had their major weaknesses corrected as easily as the M54.
Unread postby Steve84N » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:05 pm
M54 suffers from early VANOS failure and DISA issues...
35bhp is most definitely noticeable. You'll only beat 265bhp on an M54 with FI or very expensive NA mods.
Sorry, I have to disagree, same limited top speed and 0.2 secs difference in 0-60 mph. I defy anyone to notice that, unless the torque makes a real difference in performance (about which I have no experience). The M54 is one of the great BMW engines (imo-of course). Vanos failure sounds drastic but in reality what 99% of people are talking about is the gradual loss of efficiency of variable valve timing, which most drivers never even notice. The solution is very straightforward, with plenty of Viton replacement seal kits on the market at £25 or so. A decent home mechanic can handle the job of fitting the seals in a few hours, with lots of instruction and photos on this very forum. The same goes for the DISA (which of course IS a disaster if the pin comes out and goes into the engine) It's a 10 minute job to take it off and another 10 mins to fit a replacement kit which is designed differently and keeps the pin captively locked in place. With some of the horrors I have encountered in my past car history I wish all engines could have had their major weaknesses corrected as easily as the M54.
The N52 typically has no weaknesses if driven regularly.
It's not about noticing 0.2s on a 0-60 as I agree that time is hard to feel. What you will notice is a harder shove in the back and a greater disparity over a longer acceleration run. 0.2s is selling it short as in part a 0-60 is traction limited. 0-100 it's more like 0.7s.
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D786_785_783%26sort%3Drec%26but_sea%3Dqs%26sea_simple%3Dz4/index.htm
It's not about noticing 0.2s on a 0-60 as I agree that time is hard to feel. What you will notice is a harder shove in the back and a greater disparity over a longer acceleration run. 0.2s is selling it short as in part a 0-60 is traction limited. 0-100 it's more like 0.7s.
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D786_785_783%26sort%3Drec%26but_sea%3Dqs%26sea_simple%3Dz4/index.htm
jamesbond said:
The 'ticking head' or HVA issue still has no recorded failures I've ever seen, with all the thousands of these engines out there why is there no consistent evidence on the net of this issue causing a failure?
I don't understand the modding point either, both engines are highly tuned out the box and will get very little from modding without decent money being chucked at it, what sensible mods can be done on the M54 that can't be done on the N52? (Apart from FI, mega bucks and not for most people). 3.0si will also benefit from facelift mods as standard.
Both good engines, but at least offer some substance behind your opinion re realibility/modding.
To be fair both are very good engines, the N52 only came about due to new emission laws introduced in 2006. The M54 is a cracking engine and can take alot of modding including forced induction. Bit if I was to spend upwards of 4-5k for the sake of a few ponies then I would seriously consider the Z4m. Better car than both the 3.0 's and has a limited slip diff as standard and that awesome engine. If I was to buy again I would deffo be going the M route.
Also with regards to the Hva's my local independent autotech performance in telford has said to me on all bmws with the N52 he has serviced he has never seen an engine failure due to these, some of these cars are on high miles too. I also have spoken to bmw with regards to this issue and they haven't had any failure due to.this problem either. They did acknowledge that there were instances where a few heads were replaced under warranty but no engine had failed due to the Hva's.
Pricewise it's now the time to buy a z4m. I think they're about at it's lowest, and certainly the coupe will considerably rise in price, just as the z3m coupe did.
All the mods I did at my car (and that's quite a few) add up to a total sum that is still considerably less than all the options cost (navi, hifi etc etc etc) when the car was bought new (what the guy paid for that)
And if you like modding, m54 or s54 is the way to go.
The n52 has never been a loved engine in the modding scene, probably because the e90 3 series also had the n54 (all modders go for that).
As a result almost all modding companies didn't bother to make upgrade parts. A company like schrick doesnt even make cams for the n52 (and they make cams for almost all other bmw petrol engines).
So if you like modding and want a e89: go for the 35i.
As for the reliability, all m54 and pre facelift niggles now have been sorted with realtive cheap fixes:
Vanosrings are cheap and easy to install, disa is cheap and upgradeble and a diy job for everybody, and the biggest issue -sticky steering- is now solved by readjusting the tensionring on the steering column thanks to the german forums.
Modding is always expensive. But it's a hobby and hobbies are allowed to cost money. And remember decent money is very relative.AndyBeech said:
All the mods I did at my car (and that's quite a few) add up to a total sum that is still considerably less than all the options cost (navi, hifi etc etc etc) when the car was bought new (what the guy paid for that)
And if you like modding, m54 or s54 is the way to go.
The n52 has never been a loved engine in the modding scene, probably because the e90 3 series also had the n54 (all modders go for that).
As a result almost all modding companies didn't bother to make upgrade parts. A company like schrick doesnt even make cams for the n52 (and they make cams for almost all other bmw petrol engines).
So if you like modding and want a e89: go for the 35i.
As for the reliability, all m54 and pre facelift niggles now have been sorted with realtive cheap fixes:
Vanosrings are cheap and easy to install, disa is cheap and upgradeble and a diy job for everybody, and the biggest issue -sticky steering- is now solved by readjusting the tensionring on the steering column thanks to the german forums.
GuidoK said:
Totally agree chap, I wasn't saying I don't see the point in modding, I've done a few bits on my S54. I meant that I didn't understand the point of the M54 being more mod friendly than the N52. Both can have the basics such as induction, remap etc for relatively small gains, and then the M54 would only be matching the N52 out of the box or thereabouts. It's only when you get to FI that there's a difference, and if you want that route then no doubt M54 all the way, it's certainly not for a lot of people though. The M54's a cracking engine no doubt, the S54's based on it after all.
The guy that bumped this thread sounds like he was after a Coupe anyway in which case there is no choice but the N52.
Also in basic modding there is much less available for the n52. Sure you can get an open air filter or a NA tune, but relative simple stuff like underdrive pulleys or headers is already more difficult or much more expensive if you have to buy your headers at supersprint and the like.AndyBeech said:
The 3.0si n52 is more fuel efficient and has 15Nm/34Hp more than the 3.0i m54, but if you like to tinker with your car, you're very limited.
I think the biggest pro for going for a n52 is that if you desire an automatic transmission. The m54 is equipped with a 5 speed automatic and the n52 with a more modern 6 speed.
