GT4, one of the few cars I have thought about swapping to

[TomK]

My brother's got a GT4 RS

:scratchhead: gosh does he work for porsche and have one of their prototypes? Given an RS GT4 is unavailable (yet) to the public.

 

[MrPT]

The fact they WELDED third gear to the shaft is quite frankly astonishing...

Yeah, that is bizarre. Had to skip back and listen to what they said for a second time because I thought I'd misheard.

 

[TomK]

Almost as if they knew most of the ones they sold would be garaged by speculators and never used
Or geared so long you've no real reason to go to third

 

[Marlon]

My brother's got a GT4 RS

:scratchhead: gosh does he work for porsche and have one of their prototypes? Given an RS GT4 is unavailable (yet) to the public.

Yeah, got a bit carried away there
His is a 911 GTS 7 speed dual clutch PDK auto pushing out 444bhp

 

[john-e89]

Looks like poor design from where I am sitting. No car should do that. You might expect a damaged tyre, wheel or shock after a vertical impact and yes the top mount might fail but that should be a replaceable part. Are there other makes of car documented with this issue?

The follow up vid is worth watching. A tech talks through the construction of the subframe/strut assembly in that area and why different materials behave differently under sudden impact load. Steel stretches, aluminium alloys fracture, carbon can break internally. All sounds pretty reasonable to me, as does the estimated repair cost/time of £5k and two weeks. I can believe that a lot of people are driving around in bent steel chassis from the number of alignment results you see that don't quite seem right! He also points out that the strut tower damage was likely secondary to a smaller, initial break around one of the bolts (which is much more common, hence reinforcement rings etc on many motorsports/aftermarket top mounts).

With the 718 GT4/Spyder just round corner, it will be interesting to see whether any reinforcement is added from the factory. If not then I'd assume a combination of arrogance/confidence on Porsche's part. They would probably argue that the whole car is built to similar tolerances and there's no reason they'd make an exception for that particular area when, on the customer side, they could be dealing with anything from a parking ding to a full speed spin sideways into a sausage kerb on a track.

Wasn’t the front offside the wheel he smacked on a kerb from memory? That kind of hit coupled with low profile tyre and short spring travel could well easily cause the start of a fracture. They’re not meant to be smacked like that, no production sports car is. If the car is used on track with no pre fracture there won’t be a problem. I’m going on memory from the vid so I’ll stand corrected.

 

[buzyg]

Looks like poor design from where I am sitting. No car should do that. You might expect a damaged tyre, wheel or shock after a vertical impact and yes the top mount might fail but that should be a replaceable part. Are there other makes of car documented with this issue?

The follow up vid is worth watching. A tech talks through the construction of the subframe/strut assembly in that area and why different materials behave differently under sudden impact load. Steel stretches, aluminium alloys fracture, carbon can break internally. All sounds pretty reasonable to me, as does the estimated repair cost/time of £5k and two weeks. I can believe that a lot of people are driving around in bent steel chassis from the number of alignment results you see that don't quite seem right! He also points out that the strut tower damage was likely secondary to a smaller, initial break around one of the bolts (which is much more common, hence reinforcement rings etc on many motorsports/aftermarket top mounts).

With the 718 GT4/Spyder just round corner, it will be interesting to see whether any reinforcement is added from the factory. If not then I'd assume a combination of arrogance/confidence on Porsche's part. They would probably argue that the whole car is built to similar tolerances and there's no reason they'd make an exception for that particular area when, on the customer side, they could be dealing with anything from a parking ding to a full speed spin sideways into a sausage kerb on a track.

Wasn’t the front offside the wheel he smacked on a kerb from memory? That kind of hit coupled with low profile tyre and short spring travel could well easily cause the start of a fracture. They’re not meant to be smacked like that, no production sports car is. If the car is used on track with no pre fracture there won’t be a problem. I’m going on memory from the vid so I’ll stand corrected.

Your missing my point John. If some driver, plonker or skilled racer on the limit, drives over a kerb at speed, then yes something is going to get damaged. What I am saying is the point of failure should be designed. Like a fuse in an electrical circuit. The structure should not be the weakest point. That would be like the wire melting somewhere in the ring main. Not good design and dangerous.

 

[Bodyboarder]

.... from memory from when I watched the 2nd vlog , think the Porsche tech also said that the wheel is buckled.

But ultimately I’m also put off by it for such a prestigious track focused car . As said there really should be something else that ‘goes ‘ first before that !

I still think it’s all about that spin . Watch it closely and the whole car and all it’s weight is put on that front corner .... almost looks like the car comes off the ground .

And yes did go out and check mine

 

[Pete-r]

If you listen closely to the spin video, at 14:50 the owner says the car is juddering and "I might have bent something".

No mention of that in the next video where he makes it seem like the strut has popped through on a flat road.

Weird...

 

[BMWZ4MC]

The spin looked rather violent - the car almost started to roll as it dug in. Whilst there was no mention of a buckled wheel in the video and allegedly he went back out for a few more laps, I don’t remember seeing any further footage of the car moving after the spin. I don’t think there’s even any footage with the bonnet closed after the spin as that would give a clue as to the condition of the strut tower. It’s possible the suspension failed and the wheel buckled on the track and both of them know that but were hoping for a warranty or insurance payout.

Of course, the alternative is that he had a further incident at a later time, perhaps on the road and involving a kerb. That would be a more credible explanation for the buckled wheel and failed strut tower than “I was driving on smooth tarmac in a straight line”!

 

[Jembo]

How many times have we seen other cars spin violently @ speed, where I thought the recent Z4MC track vid spin was going much faster & no report of damage - the points made my buzgy & myself earlier are whether it’s acceptable for a prestige race thoroughbread to have this kind of failure?

Happens once... hey ho... a number of times & there’s clearly a design flaw, irrespective of whether the drivers are Muppets

 

[MrPT]

Wheel buckled and a top strut nut that started to punch through the tower (the equivalent of which on a steel chassis would be a bent strut tower). Doesn’t that constitute “something else going first”?

Genuine question... I don’t know enough about the pattern of failure with these GTs to say, either way.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

How many times have we seen other cars spin violently @ speed, where I thought the recent Z4MC track vid spin was going much faster & no report of damage - the points made my buzgy & myself earlier are whether it’s acceptable for a prestige race thoroughbread to have this kind of failure?

Happens once... hey ho... a number of times & there’s clearly a design flaw, irrespective of whether the drivers are Muppets

Tom's spin didn't lift the car and then thump it back down, it was entirely a slide. The GT4 spin was much more violent.

I think the problem relates to the choice of construction material. Porsche have accepted the lesser mechanical properties of aluminium compared with steel as a trade off for its lightness. Perhaps they should have made the strut towers from steel and the non-structural panels from aluminium :scratchhead:

 

[Jembo]

How many times have we seen other cars spin violently @ speed, where I thought the recent Z4MC track vid spin was going much faster & no report of damage - the points made my buzgy & myself earlier are whether it’s acceptable for a prestige race thoroughbread to have this kind of failure?

Happens once... hey ho... a number of times & there’s clearly a design flaw, irrespective of whether the drivers are Muppets

Tom's spin didn't lift the car and then thump it back down, it was entirely a slide. The GT4 spin was much more violent.

I think the problem relates to the choice of construction material. Porsche have accepted the lesser mechanical properties of aluminium compared with steel as a trade off for its lightness. Perhaps they should have made the strut towers from steel and the non-structural panels from aluminium :scratchhead:

Agreed Tom’s was less violent Rich, though intended as just one example of many other spins.

IMO suggest we remember what happened to Senna where part of the car’s suspension sheered off, just consider if one of these struts were to punch their way into the cabin through total loss of structural integrity...

If I owned one of these cars, this would now be in the back of my mind thinking if I were to have a serious accident... on the track or on the road