Good news about the next Z4M...TT-RS confirmed with pics
- Thread starter Wondermike
- Start date
If it works OK in the new M3, you'd have to think that the new Z4 would be able to cope too.Cheburator said:
What engines do these coupes run, it is a tuned S54 or something else?
FirstKnight
Member
Cheburator said:
The current Z4M platform is based upon the E46 whereas the next gen will use the E90 series - therefore an uprated chassis. The E92 M3 chassis will be very much the foundation for the next Z4M I would think and thus able to cope. At worst the engine would be detuned slightly but I doubt they would do even that and it'll be the full power unit.
I would be surprised if the drop the V8 in. Apparently the next M5 is going to eschew the V10 in favour of a twin-turbo V8. I suspect that turbocharging is the way forward for the M cars of the future, due to emissions, mpg, CO2, etc. BMW and Mercedes are also lobbying the FIA for F1 to go turbo again.
If they do make turbocharged M-cars it is a pity, as I like large naturally-aspirated engines. I predict we'll get something along the lines of the 135i engine, 3.0 twin turbo.
If they do make turbocharged M-cars it is a pity, as I like large naturally-aspirated engines. I predict we'll get something along the lines of the 135i engine, 3.0 twin turbo.
That'll already be in the car in non-///M trim though, and I don't think they have another engine to put in the ///M apart from the V8.carl said:
Cheburator
Member
What makes you think that the current Z4M is based on the E46??? 
:thumbsdown:
The Z4M is a parts bin special - the suspension is based on the E36 front and E46 rear.
The race Z4MC runs a S54 engine with a carbon airbox, sharper cams and a few other things...
P.S.1. This is a bit like the dubious statements that that the front strut brace improves noticeably handling - funny that BMW has already triangulated the top suspension struts. Or talking about 2nd gear corners in normal driving. Unless we are discussing Stelvio here, I doubt you really need anything less than 3d on a normal B-road.... Lot's of opinions, but few of them based on actual fact
:thumbsdown: The Z4M is a parts bin special - the suspension is based on the E36 front and E46 rear.
The race Z4MC runs a S54 engine with a carbon airbox, sharper cams and a few other things...
P.S.1. This is a bit like the dubious statements that that the front strut brace improves noticeably handling - funny that BMW has already triangulated the top suspension struts. Or talking about 2nd gear corners in normal driving. Unless we are discussing Stelvio here, I doubt you really need anything less than 3d on a normal B-road.... Lot's of opinions, but few of them based on actual fact
Cheburator said:What makes you think that the current Z4M is based on the E46???
The Z4M is a parts bin special - the suspension is based on the E36 front and E46 rear.
The race Z4MC runs a S54 engine with a carbon airbox, sharper cams and a few other things...
P.S.1. This is a bit like the dubious statements that that the front strut brace improves noticeably handling - funny that BMW has already triangulated the top suspension struts. Or talking about 2nd gear corners in normal driving. Unless we are discussing Stelvio here, I doubt you really need anything less than 3d on a normal B-road.... Lot's of opinions, but few of them based on actual fact
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who laughs at the " fitted a strut brace and now the ( otherwise standard ) car handles much better " statement!!
Cheburator
Member
Curtis said:
Wow - I thought I was in the minority...
The car is stiff, and I mean stupidly stiff, the front end has built in understeer and turn-in is a bit crap as a result of the above... Oh, I know what I am going to do - I will keep the stock suspension settings and supposedly make the front end even stiffer by adding a strut brace. That is definitely, positively, absolutely going to improve handling further
You got it! It's not just that either, forces on the front end during cornering act in an vertical direction, not horizontally. I build and maintain race cars for a living ( amongst other things ) and guess what? 90% of them don't have a strut brace. That must be where they're going wrong!! The day I find that my bonnet/hood is being crushed between the inner wings is the day I need a strut brace
Cheburator
Member
Curtis said:You got it! It's not just that either, forces on the front end during cornering act in an vertical direction, not horizontally. I build and maintain race cars for a living ( amongst other things ) and guess what? 90% of them don't have a strut brace. That must be where they're going wrong!! The day I find that my bonnet/hood is being crushed between the inner wings is the day I need a strut brace
I agree with all of the above. I even went back to my mechanics textbook from my Further Maths A-level and drew a "lovely" diagram of the forces acting on the tower whilst cornering. Funnily enough, one of the vectors runs along the lines of the original BMW bracing...
I also built race cars every now and then - as a hobby though - and I think have done enough laps of the Ring in the last 5years to have a minimal clue about set-ups and how suspension works. I don't know who started the myth that the front end of the Z4MC can be "settled" with a strut brace, but what I know is that it is a lot of olde horsemanure
Similar to the rubbish about the benefits of a BBK vs. swapping the OEM suspension and the possible effects on lap times 
That was a good arguement but unfortunately he just kept quoting stuff from books that had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the situation in question. He just couldn't see sense.
BBK versus top end best of everything suspension = hard to call.
BBK versus a few crappy H&R bits and no intention of setting the car up = get a BBK!!
Either way, being able to stop is always the top priority in my book, there no point being able to go fast if your just going to die because you can't slow down. End of story!!!
BBK versus top end best of everything suspension = hard to call.
BBK versus a few crappy H&R bits and no intention of setting the car up = get a BBK!!
Either way, being able to stop is always the top priority in my book, there no point being able to go fast if your just going to die because you can't slow down. End of story!!!
FirstKnight
Member
Cheburator said:What makes you think that the current Z4M is based on the E46???
The Z4M is a parts bin special - the suspension is based on the E36 front and E46 rear.
Let's see now...the book BMW Z4: Design Development and Production by David Lightfoot says that the Z4 drivetrain is taken from the E46 as are many other parts; the front axle and assembly was taken virtually unchanged from the E46 3-series and that the rear axle was, in fact, unique to the Z4 having been specially made. Now I have been led to understand that later the Z4M was similar in terms of E46 raided parts but with the E46 M3 rather than the standard 3-series, including the use of the E46 M-diff lock at the rear and brakes from the E46 M3 CSL; not mentioned specifically in my 2004 Edition of the book for obvious reasons.
FirstKnight, I'd have to agree with you. I have some BMW tech info or a training module or something from 2004 and it states that
...the front axle has been taken directly from the E46...
...the rear axle is very similar to the E46... [goes on to list the changes]
...the front axle has been taken directly from the E46...
...the rear axle is very similar to the E46... [goes on to list the changes]
Cheburator
Member
Yet again plenty of proof given by people with the exception of curtis who have not actually worked on the car, but have read some rubbish statement posted somewhere by someone who was not very clear what they were on about...
The front Z4M suspension is much closer to the E36 than the E46 in its design - FGS just have a look at it... Helpfull hint - a quick check on http://www.REALOEM.com can spare some blushes before you type something sometimes. As with regards to the cooking versions of the Z4 - never been interested in it, but yes, I can confirm that it is identical to the E46. That was not the point of my post though, was it?
Just to give you a little heads up - if you were right, then the aftermarket suspension kits would have been interchangeable between the Z4M and the Z4... They are not...
The front Z4M suspension is much closer to the E36 than the E46 in its design - FGS just have a look at it... Helpfull hint - a quick check on http://www.REALOEM.com can spare some blushes before you type something sometimes. As with regards to the cooking versions of the Z4 - never been interested in it, but yes, I can confirm that it is identical to the E46. That was not the point of my post though, was it?
Just to give you a little heads up - if you were right, then the aftermarket suspension kits would have been interchangeable between the Z4M and the Z4... They are not...
Cheburator said:
I'm not quite sure what were going with this anymore however all I want to say is that before the Z4M became available we (Simpson Motorsport) transplanted the complete front and rear suspension and back axle from an E46 M3 onto my car. It's a straight bolt in swap which would indicate that the floorpan and suspension mounting points on the Z4 are at least very similar to the E46. The M rear axle is however narrower at the hubs than the standard Z4 unit which was great for me because it allowed me to fit OEM CSL rims. That was when CSL rims on a Z4 were fairly unique! I wasn't the first to do it though. Those of you from Z4um may remember Tony Rodrigues aka X88 Racing. He did the same transplant into his 3.0.
Interesting, I will concede that Cheburator is correct and the front suspension (king pin mainly) is based on the E36 for the Z4M and the cooking models are definitely E46 based, however many part numbers (can't remember them all now!!) are also shared with the E46 M3, so along with what Curtis has said about bolting in the E46 M3 to his Alpina, it *is* definitely a parts bin special.
One good thing though - what raised the intial question was whether or not the V8 was good enough for the next Z4M, and whilst it would certainly overwhelm the current car, given that the current Z4M is based on (some) components that are nearly (what 20?) years old then hopefully the new car will be much more capable of handling 420bhp.
E36 M3
E85 Z4M
E85 Z4 3.0Si (and other E46 models too)
One good thing though - what raised the intial question was whether or not the V8 was good enough for the next Z4M, and whilst it would certainly overwhelm the current car, given that the current Z4M is based on (some) components that are nearly (what 20?) years old then hopefully the new car will be much more capable of handling 420bhp.
E36 M3
E85 Z4M
E85 Z4 3.0Si (and other E46 models too)
Probably true, but on here there is probably less cock-waving than you would get on other forums and therefore less need to worry about posting the wrong thing, and people with knowledge are encouraged to share itCheburator said:
Cheburator
Member
Wondermike said:...One good thing though - what raised the intial question was whether or not the V8 was good enough for the next Z4M, and whilst it would certainly overwhelm the current car, given that the current Z4M is based on (some) components that are nearly (what 20?) years old then hopefully the new car will be much more capable of handling 420bhp...
...Probably true, but on here there is probably less cock-waving than you would get on other forums and therefore less need to worry about posting the wrong thing, and people with knowledge are encouraged to share it...
LOL! You are right - this forum is very friendly and laid back compared to others...
I wonder why BMW decided to re-design the front axle and go back to E36M3/Z3M king pin arrangement given that they already had a proven set-up to hand from the E46M3/Z4? It would not have been cheap and car makers rarely do things for no specific reason. Any ideas?
As with regards to the V8 in the new Z4MC - I am not sure that I like the idea regardless of whether the new chasis can cope with the extra power.Instinctively I am thinking that new V8 is there just to compensate for extra weight. It would be nice if BMW made a lighter car for a change...
