Stark said:
I had one and it would wheelspin in 3rd given enough provocation. Lovely little car. I often wonder if the new GTD would be a good buy as a daily driver.
Go on then, convince me a Diesel Sports Car can work
- Thread starter buzyg
- Start date
I had one and it would wheelspin in 3rd given enough provocation. Lovely little car. I often wonder if the new GTD would be a good buy as a daily driver.I've recently owned a 3 series diesel then an A3 diesel. The 3 series sounded like a bloody tractor and was pretty horrid to drive but then it was only a 320. The A3 was much better but it did have the DSG which in my opinion is suited to the diesel engine.
I was just never happy in a diesel and I was constantly crapping myself about blown turbos. Both cars were renowned for it and the potential bill on the BMW was scary. I also found that the savings in terms of the running costs doing 14k miles per year weren't that great.
If someone produced a good diesel sports car I wouldn't write it off just the same as if someone invented an amazing sports car that ran on sh1te I wouldn't write it off. I doubt I'd buy another diesel for reasons of economy though unless I was doing massive mileage. I'm not sure how long diesels will be regarded the more financially sensible choice though. The refinement process for diesel naturally produces more petrol so if more people buy them then the natural increased demand will drive the price up and leave us with an excess of petrol due to their being less of a demand for that. Bring it on
I was just never happy in a diesel and I was constantly crapping myself about blown turbos. Both cars were renowned for it and the potential bill on the BMW was scary. I also found that the savings in terms of the running costs doing 14k miles per year weren't that great.
If someone produced a good diesel sports car I wouldn't write it off just the same as if someone invented an amazing sports car that ran on sh1te I wouldn't write it off. I doubt I'd buy another diesel for reasons of economy though unless I was doing massive mileage. I'm not sure how long diesels will be regarded the more financially sensible choice though. The refinement process for diesel naturally produces more petrol so if more people buy them then the natural increased demand will drive the price up and leave us with an excess of petrol due to their being less of a demand for that. Bring it on
I wouldn't want a diesel full stop. They sound crap, they rev to about 4.5k (5k if you're lucky) they have turbos and when you sit behind one and they accelerate you get a cloud full of silty crap coming your way. Hate the things with a passion.
I had a Merc diesel company car one once and I've driven quite a few modern ones such as the 325d M-sport coupe etc. Just not my bag, end of.
As Mr Wilks said, the demise of petrol has been hugely overplayed. Petrol engines are catching up rapidly.
I had a Merc diesel company car one once and I've driven quite a few modern ones such as the 325d M-sport coupe etc. Just not my bag, end of.
As Mr Wilks said, the demise of petrol has been hugely overplayed. Petrol engines are catching up rapidly.
I have a few friends in the motor trade and all say that diesels are becoming less popular. With lots of people now changing back to efficient petrol models. They say it's Mainly due to people that know nothing about cars buying them to pootle around town which means they get problems with the DPF etc. and never see the benefits of the better fuel economy as anyone that has ever owned one will testify that they are not efficient round the houses so to speak.
sars said:Bing said:Okay, controversial comment coming up, but in my head at least the Le Mans circuit doesn't qualify as a full-on racing circuit like F1 tracks or even the Nurburgring. Top speed counts for a lot, but there's only about a quarter of the track that is proper twisty ? Maybe I am missing something... Not driven an LMP carson don't know what it is like, could be talking sh1te
The Audi etrons were awesome through the twisties, but that had little to do with the engine, however acceleration out of corners using the energy recovery system certainly helped.
Actaully, you emphasise Stuart's point about testing and showing new technology, at the same time as reducing it - energy recovery systems will work on any type of engine, right ? So if they get this new tech in petrol cars combined with all the other efficiency improvements being introduced, diesel will die off, at least for passenger cars surely ?
Brake regeneration works in motor racing because of the constant accelaration and braking, doesn't really work in a passenger car because of the type of driving. I think that other technologies will kill the diesel for low mileage passenger cars.
Hybrids, not of the Prius type but the Petrol range extender type, I see becoming more popular as the price drops and this will cover the majority of the average commuters car usage. High mileage users will still use diesels and I don't see that changing until the fuel cell is a fully developed technology.
Hybrids, not of the Prius type but the Petrol range extender type, I see becoming more popular as the price drops and this will cover the majority of the average commuters car usage. High mileage users will still use diesels and I don't see that changing until the fuel cell is a fully developed technology.
sars, spot on and so succinct.
taz may have a rival
xx
taz may have a rival
xx
I think some of these modern diesels could work quite well in a sporty car.
Having spent 10 days in an A7 3.0TDI, I'm completely converted. Absolutely loved that car. Fast, comfortable, and the TDI model sounded better than the 3.0TSI V6 Turbo Petrol! Similar story with the 730d, that car is also brilliant, and sounded good when giving it a go.
Not really the topic of discussion, but I'd quite happily slip behind the wheel of an A5 Sportback 3.0TDI for a few years. Similar story of fast, comfortable, sounds pretty good, and huge load space for work duties.
Having spent 10 days in an A7 3.0TDI, I'm completely converted. Absolutely loved that car. Fast, comfortable, and the TDI model sounded better than the 3.0TSI V6 Turbo Petrol! Similar story with the 730d, that car is also brilliant, and sounded good when giving it a go.
Not really the topic of discussion, but I'd quite happily slip behind the wheel of an A5 Sportback 3.0TDI for a few years. Similar story of fast, comfortable, sounds pretty good, and huge load space for work duties.
I've never owned a diesel nor aspire to do so...
I've driven a couple fairly recently - a Mazda 3 courtesy car which felt like a tractor and actually made mrs gannet and I feel sick when sat idling in traffic
The other a BMW 120d coupe which was merely OK...
We own two petrol cars
Mazda 2 Sport, naturally aspirated 1.5 litre which is actually pretty gutless...
Citroen DS3 THP, 1.6 Turbo which is far from gutless and on the same road driven well would have kept my 3.0 z4 honest...
which of the above two cars is more fuel efficient.... the DS3 by a country mile... which is the cheaper to tax.... the mazda, crazy :?
the mileage we do (mazda 3 years old just approaching 12k, ds3 approaching 1 year old 8k) diesel just doesn't add up for us. I'd never have a diesel in a drop top - if at all...
I've driven a couple fairly recently - a Mazda 3 courtesy car which felt like a tractor and actually made mrs gannet and I feel sick when sat idling in traffic
The other a BMW 120d coupe which was merely OK...We own two petrol cars
Mazda 2 Sport, naturally aspirated 1.5 litre which is actually pretty gutless...
Citroen DS3 THP, 1.6 Turbo which is far from gutless and on the same road driven well would have kept my 3.0 z4 honest...
which of the above two cars is more fuel efficient.... the DS3 by a country mile... which is the cheaper to tax.... the mazda, crazy :?
the mileage we do (mazda 3 years old just approaching 12k, ds3 approaching 1 year old 8k) diesel just doesn't add up for us. I'd never have a diesel in a drop top - if at all...
We have 2 Diesel's a 320d and a 120d. The 320 is for lugging everything around and is a real work horse, the 120 is a coupe and definitely has the sporty feel about it. The downside of a diesel is (I think Sars said) all the power is at the beginning, put you foot down and the turbo kicks in... boom. The power does start to wain around 5,000 revs though, which is where your petrol would keep pulling (dependent on the engine).
There was a comparison done some time ago that suggested more than 30,000 miles per year were needed to break even when running a diesel against a petrol, when taking into account everything from fuel price to servicing etc.
There was a comparison done some time ago that suggested more than 30,000 miles per year were needed to break even when running a diesel against a petrol, when taking into account everything from fuel price to servicing etc.
A
Anonymous
Guest
We've run a remapped Golf 2.0TDI and CLS 320CDI. The Brabus remap on the CLS kicked out 590Nm of torque, which was almost as much as the CLS 6.3AMG at 630Nm, but would still do 40MPG on a motorway run.
However, the power delivery was more suited to quick, but lazy driving :wink:, where the N54 in the Z4 is much more suited to progressive driving and encourages you to go faster
However, the power delivery was more suited to quick, but lazy driving :wink:, where the N54 in the Z4 is much more suited to progressive driving and encourages you to go faster
A
Anonymous
Guest
Also the diesel engines in the LMP class cars have the advantage that they require fewer fuel stops which makes a big difference in a 24hr endurance race. They don't sound as good as the petrol cars though.
Depends on your interpretation of a sports car. A large part of a sports car experience for me is the noise, and I've yet to hear a diesel engine that appeals in the same way as a 6-cyl petrol, V8, etc. I seriously considered 320d/330d/335d's before settling on a n/a big-engined petrol model instead due to my low miles and the added complexity of the diesel engines.
I DO like the power delivery of a TDI: Mrs a11y's Fabia vRS is a hoot to drive - obviously not a sports car but more than capable of harassing a Z4 on give-and-take A-roads
To me, noise is the only downside of a diesel.
I DO like the power delivery of a TDI: Mrs a11y's Fabia vRS is a hoot to drive - obviously not a sports car but more than capable of harassing a Z4 on give-and-take A-roads
To me, noise is the only downside of a diesel.
A
Anonymous
Guest
a11y said:
Sounds like a topic for a new thread, "Best engine sound ever ..."
As a view on the evolution of technology, if you put that Merc SLK diesel up against an MG RV8 from just a few years ago, it would simply run rings around it in performance, handling, economy, comfort and reliability. I wonder what we'll all be saying and driving in 10 years time...
I doubt very much that diesel is the future. Hybrids and electric cars are not the solution either, anyone that has experience of running one as a private car will testify to this.
I think the small capacity petrols with about 40 turbos strapped to them will be the future. Engines like the Fiat 1.4MA that is used in the Alfa Giulietta, the new VAG 1.4 TSi engine and the BMW F30 328i move the game on in my opinion. I had one of the Giulietta 1.4MAs for a test drive and I was very impressed with the engine and the DNA system.
I think the small capacity petrols with about 40 turbos strapped to them will be the future. Engines like the Fiat 1.4MA that is used in the Alfa Giulietta, the new VAG 1.4 TSi engine and the BMW F30 328i move the game on in my opinion. I had one of the Giulietta 1.4MAs for a test drive and I was very impressed with the engine and the DNA system.
Mowflow said:
We can all hope diesel isn't the future, I don't appreciate paying more tax at the pump, and a 3% adder on company car tax. (One of the reasons I opted out) But as an answer to the OP's question, diesel is probably a valid answer, if you can put up with the clatter.
Mowflow said:
That is why I suggested range extender type hybrids, run a small engine at its highest efficiency and use it to drive a genny and then charge the battery which feeds the brushless motors. The battery becomes a large capacitor taking out the changes in load when accelerating and breaking, giving good efficiency figures.
The problem with any combustion engine is the change in load, you use lots of energy to accelerate and then gain nothing when you stop. Electric motors can be used to brake very effectively by loading them back into the battery.
Adding lots of small turbos does not help even out the load variations of town/commuter style driving and thus not the solution
Even taking into account the higher cost of the car when new, residually, a diesel will retain a higher percentage of its value than a petrol car.....
Compare a TT at a similar price at TDI and FSI models....or pretty much any BMW 1 series, 3 series etc....
Going back to the topic, yes a petrol car sounds gorgeous, give me a 5.0 Supercharged V8 from a Range Rover Sport any day over the V6 Diesel (or over any other petrol car I've had before) I had, but trying selling the V8 Supercharged car.....that's another story.
Compare a TT at a similar price at TDI and FSI models....or pretty much any BMW 1 series, 3 series etc....
Going back to the topic, yes a petrol car sounds gorgeous, give me a 5.0 Supercharged V8 from a Range Rover Sport any day over the V6 Diesel (or over any other petrol car I've had before) I had, but trying selling the V8 Supercharged car.....that's another story.