Geometry / Alignment settings after fitting lowering springs

J

jamiez

Senior member
 SW London
Morning

Getting my Eibachs (thanks DONDP aka Dave!) fitted on Saturday along with a full Hunter allignment. The shop im going to have the Hunter stuff but I think by default will just do the geo setting per default M standards which would not be right after fitting my Eibachs

So my question is - what do I tell them to adjust and by what?

I have read up a bit on here and can see that Dave listed his settings but im not sure if there were with the Eibachs or with the Monotubes.
Also i dont want to pull the camber pins.

http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=47453&hilit=EIBACHS&start=30

So my request really is for the right Geometry / Alignment settings after fitting Eibachs Pro Kit...based on the fact that 90% of driving time will be on the road

Thanks
Jamie
 
I thought that lowering the car effectively changes the geo 'by default', so what you have to do is re-set it to the correct settings once lowered ?

I could of course be completely wrong...

There is a thread here discussing ///M geo settings : http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17429&start=30

Of course you could try emailing Eibach and asking them if they have the settings for your car ?
 
If I were you, I'd set the front to maximum -ve camber by pulling the locating pins out of the top mounts and set front toe to zero. At the rear, I'd reduce the -ve camber to around -1.2degrees and have VERY slight toe-in.
 
Bing said:
I thought that lowering the car effectively changes the geo 'by default', so what you have to do is re-set it to the correct settings once lowered ?

I could of course be completely wrong...

There is a thread here discussing ///M geo settings : http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17429&start=30

Of course you could try emailing Eibach and asking them if they have the settings for your car ?
Click to expand...

Cheers mate - I have read through it and it makes no mention of settings after lowering - maybe its not important as you say - i just dont know! I will try and call Eibach later - they are based in the US and dont have an email address on their site...

Hopefully some others on here with Eibachs/H&Rs will come up and offer their advise on what they did....

Cheers
 
exdos said:
If I were you, I'd set the front to maximum -ve camber by pulling the locating pins out of the top mounts and set front toe to zero. At the rear, I'd reduce the -ve camber to around -1.2degrees and have VERY slight toe-in.
Click to expand...

How will this affect my tire wear based on my 90% driving on the road?
 
jamiez said:
How will this affect my tire wear based on my 90% driving on the road?
Click to expand...
It will considerably improve it. The static geometry settings are an attempt at "best compromise" settings to optimise the tyre contact patch for all driving conditions, bearing in mind that there is constant load shifting around the car when driving, such as pitching on braking, squatting on acceleration and lateral body roll during direction change etc. The camber and toe settings have an impact on the tendency to under/oversteer, ease of turn-in and straight line stability and the OEM settings all tend towards straight line stability and understeer. If you do most of your driving on public roads with a fair amount of motorway/dual carriageway driving with the OEM settings then the load on your tyres is essentially like walking on the inside edges of a pair of shoes with your toes pointing inwards, and so you'll tend to wear out the insides of the tyres more than the outsides.

If you set the toe as I've suggested then you will remove the tendency to scrub the inside edges when the car is travelling in straight lines (i.e. most of the time) and reducing toe-in reduces the inherent tendency to understeer. Increasing front camber will allow your car to take the increased loading on the front outside wheel on the full width of the tyre, rather than on the outside edge of the tyre during cornering, and again this will tend to equalize tyre wear across the width of the tyre, as well as increasing lateral grip during cornering.

I have adjustable suspension on both my Z3MC and Z4MC and I have them both set up in the way that I've suggested. The rear OEM suspension on the Z3MC is fixed, but I dismantled the rear subframe and welded adjustable camber and toe brackets so that I could correct the geometry. I also fitted caster/camber plates at the front and now get very even tyre wear, even on 235 fronts and 285 rear tyres on my Z3MC on both road driving and trackdays at The Ring. :thumbsup:
 
exdos said:
jamiez said:
How will this affect my tire wear based on my 90% driving on the road?
Click to expand...
It will considerably improve it. The static geometry settings are an attempt at "best compromise" settings to optimise the tyre contact patch for all driving conditions, bearing in mind that there is constant load shifting around the car when driving, such as pitching on braking, squatting on acceleration and lateral body roll during direction change etc. The camber and toe settings have an impact on the tendency to under/oversteer, ease of turn-in and straight line stability and the OEM settings all tend towards straight line stability and understeer. If you do most of your driving on public roads with a fair amount of motorway/dual carriageway driving with the OEM settings then the load on your tyres is essentially like walking on the inside edges of a pair of shoes with your toes pointing inwards, and so you'll tend to wear out the insides of the tyres more than the outsides.

If you set the toe as I've suggested then you will remove the tendency to scrub the inside edges when the car is travelling in straight lines (i.e. most of the time) and reducing toe-in reduces the inherent tendency to understeer. Increasing front camber will allow your car to take the increased loading on the front outside wheel on the full width of the tyre, rather than on the outside edge of the tyre during cornering, and again this will tend to equalize tyre wear across the width of the tyre, as well as increasing lateral grip during cornering.

I have adjustable suspension on both my Z3MC and Z4MC and I have them both set up in the way that I've suggested. The rear OEM suspension on the Z3MC is fixed, but I dismantled the rear subframe and welded adjustable camber and toe brackets so that I could correct the geometry. I also fitted caster/camber plates at the front and now get very even tyre wear, even on 235 fronts and 285 rear tyres on my Z3MC on both road driving and trackdays at The Ring. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Well f*ck me - that is a great answer :thumbsup:

Question - would this principle work on a 3.0si, or is the suspension / set-up too different ?
 
Bing said:
Well f*ck me - that is a great answer :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Thank you. But I'll decline your offer though. :oops:

Bing said:
Question - would this principle work on a 3.0si, or is the suspension / set-up too different ?
Click to expand...
Same principle on them all. The Z4MC is quite strongly "restrained' by both the suspension geometry, the ECU fuelling maps and the DSC but IMO the suspension settings have possibly the biggest restraint in preventing the car from getting out of shape in the first place and being a complete hooligan.
 
exdos would you recommend your suggested changes above for everyone or just those looking for a more track-oriented feel?
 
jimmybell said:
exdos would you recommend your suggested changes above for everyone or just those looking for a more track-oriented feel?
Click to expand...

The settings will improve the tyre wear problem and make the handling more neutral. IMO, a neutral handling car is better/safer than one with a tendency to understeer and refuse to go round corners.
 
exdos said:
jamiez said:
How will this affect my tire wear based on my 90% driving on the road?
Click to expand...
It will considerably improve it. The static geometry settings are an attempt at "best compromise" settings to optimise the tyre contact patch for all driving conditions, bearing in mind that there is constant load shifting around the car when driving, such as pitching on braking, squatting on acceleration and lateral body roll during direction change etc. The camber and toe settings have an impact on the tendency to under/oversteer, ease of turn-in and straight line stability and the OEM settings all tend towards straight line stability and understeer. If you do most of your driving on public roads with a fair amount of motorway/dual carriageway driving with the OEM settings then the load on your tyres is essentially like walking on the inside edges of a pair of shoes with your toes pointing inwards, and so you'll tend to wear out the insides of the tyres more than the outsides.

If you set the toe as I've suggested then you will remove the tendency to scrub the inside edges when the car is travelling in straight lines (i.e. most of the time) and reducing toe-in reduces the inherent tendency to understeer. Increasing front camber will allow your car to take the increased loading on the front outside wheel on the full width of the tyre, rather than on the outside edge of the tyre during cornering, and again this will tend to equalize tyre wear across the width of the tyre, as well as increasing lateral grip during cornering.

I have adjustable suspension on both my Z3MC and Z4MC and I have them both set up in the way that I've suggested. The rear OEM suspension on the Z3MC is fixed, but I dismantled the rear subframe and welded adjustable camber and toe brackets so that I could correct the geometry. I also fitted caster/camber plates at the front and now get very even tyre wear, even on 235 fronts and 285 rear tyres on my Z3MC on both road driving and trackdays at The Ring. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

exdos - thank you very much for this, some great detail which fills me with alot of confidence!!

Last question - where are the camber pins and how do I remove them? Does the car need to be on a ramp - have some bolts undone 1st on the suspension? A pic would be good also. I just dont know if the place im taking the car to will know about this....maybe im talking rubbish and "all" garages will know how to do this....

Thanks again - legend and phoenix yellow - what a colour :)

Jamie
 
Looks like on the strut tower - like this - which is a simple bolt undo job: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193811
 
Wow nice one exdos.

Mine has been tramlining like anything lately.... Think when i put my summer tyres back on the fronts are the on the other side that they used to be on.

Will get my car realligned with these settings :bow:


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
 
So it's all done ready and paid for. However I haven't picked it up from the garage forecourt yet as not had the time.

First drove in sub 2 hours / watch this space.

Stance looks great. Will do before and after pics of course!
 
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