ewwimbledon
Member
original guvnor said:
Rear seats however small would be quite useful. But the TT is very common and doesn't look nearly as good as the Z with roof down. Looks quite like a small boat.
Future classic ?
- Thread starter shotbybothsides
- Start date
Rear seats however small would be quite useful. But the TT is very common and doesn't look nearly as good as the Z with roof down. Looks quite like a small boat.
I don't really understand some of the reactions on this topic... I think it's a good question!
Is there anyone on here that actually knows about classics?
In my opinion, some Zeds can certainly become classics. Take the E85 Alpina for example. A very rare breed in Belgium: there used to be 5 a few years ago, now only 3 left (2 others totaled). Of course, as it is with any brand, all mass-production versions will never become a classic, so any regular Zed probably will age well, but won't become a classic.
The E85 Z4MC is probably a potential classis as well, as no coupes are made anymore and Z4MC is getting quite rare already (in Belgium).
Is there anyone on here that actually knows about classics?
In my opinion, some Zeds can certainly become classics. Take the E85 Alpina for example. A very rare breed in Belgium: there used to be 5 a few years ago, now only 3 left (2 others totaled). Of course, as it is with any brand, all mass-production versions will never become a classic, so any regular Zed probably will age well, but won't become a classic.
The E85 Z4MC is probably a potential classis as well, as no coupes are made anymore and Z4MC is getting quite rare already (in Belgium).
ewwimbledon
Member
I think the Valencia orange is a classic already and I bet while people on this forum like it a lot few will take the plunge and order one?
I don't think a particular colour will become a classic in its own right - it will be the model that does and some colours more desirable than others.
Will the E89 be a classic? The answer is we don't know. Who knows it might be the last Z4 (a possibility as there hasn't been a sniff of a replacement being snapped heavily disguised yet).
I'd say on balance it will probably not reach classic status but nice, well maintained ones will stop depreciating at about the 5k level.
I think the best chance of the E85/86 will be the Z4MC but that might always lag a little behind the Z3MC with the S54 because it wasn't the first such model. Time will tell. The M E86's with low mileage though seem to have virtually bottomed out in value now. I don't think you'll ever be able to pick up a <40k mile example for less than £15k now.
Will the E89 be a classic? The answer is we don't know. Who knows it might be the last Z4 (a possibility as there hasn't been a sniff of a replacement being snapped heavily disguised yet).
I'd say on balance it will probably not reach classic status but nice, well maintained ones will stop depreciating at about the 5k level.
I think the best chance of the E85/86 will be the Z4MC but that might always lag a little behind the Z3MC with the S54 because it wasn't the first such model. Time will tell. The M E86's with low mileage though seem to have virtually bottomed out in value now. I don't think you'll ever be able to pick up a <40k mile example for less than £15k now.
Theres no reason why any car couldnt be a classic. If it pulls a heart string in a certain generation then people will want them later in life.
There is more too it than pure volume. Its been the problem with the Z all the way through. I hate to say it but the Z4M sold barely any because it wasnt a popular or was a very niche product. So to the right people or BMW M enthusiasts it will be. But I think the pedegree helps.
Problem with the E89 it was born into a climate that wont sustain it. 2 seat sportscars are niche products when money is uncertain. Which is probably why the TT is more of a popular car as you can put 4 in if you are desperate.
But as much of a great car it is, the E89 has struggled with pulling the heart strings.
There is more too it than pure volume. Its been the problem with the Z all the way through. I hate to say it but the Z4M sold barely any because it wasnt a popular or was a very niche product. So to the right people or BMW M enthusiasts it will be. But I think the pedegree helps.
Problem with the E89 it was born into a climate that wont sustain it. 2 seat sportscars are niche products when money is uncertain. Which is probably why the TT is more of a popular car as you can put 4 in if you are desperate.
But as much of a great car it is, the E89 has struggled with pulling the heart strings.
- but I couldn't consider them as classics like the Healey/E Type/ Daimler Dart.
I've been doing classic cars for well over 20 years and even in the classic world there's a strong debate over how to define a classic car. Whilst almost everyone agrees that my mini and stag fit into the description of classics they have very little in common, the mini was build in vast numbers and there are still thousands on the road so rarity can't be a deciding factor. The stag had poor build, poor reliability, and not much desirability when it was current but good looks and a strong following amongst a small number of enthusiasts ensured its status.
When I started the e-type and Heeley owner types poured scorn on the XR and GTi cars at shows, now they are seen regularly at most shows up and down the country. People used to say you couldn't fiddle with fuel injection, abs and ecus but we do. I don't think it will too long before obd2 will become hackable and we can fiddle with our moderns with laptops and iffy software. Most modern cars I've worked on are easy to spanner compared to old stuff so I don't think general maintenance and replacement will be an issue. Bumpers, panels are all easy to replace and welding is welding (Ali excepted)
Will the z be a classic in 20 years?, well folk said the mx5 would never attain classic status 20 years ago, so I recon it has a good chance, along with the TT and SLK. The Boxster is already there!
Cheers
When I started the e-type and Heeley owner types poured scorn on the XR and GTi cars at shows, now they are seen regularly at most shows up and down the country. People used to say you couldn't fiddle with fuel injection, abs and ecus but we do. I don't think it will too long before obd2 will become hackable and we can fiddle with our moderns with laptops and iffy software. Most modern cars I've worked on are easy to spanner compared to old stuff so I don't think general maintenance and replacement will be an issue. Bumpers, panels are all easy to replace and welding is welding (Ali excepted)
Will the z be a classic in 20 years?, well folk said the mx5 would never attain classic status 20 years ago, so I recon it has a good chance, along with the TT and SLK. The Boxster is already there!
Cheers
Like I said above there seems to be no definitive answer other than a collection of enthusiasts willing to look after and cherish order examples and a support industry who cater for their needs. Speaking as an ex Boxster owner both of the above criteria apply
Cheers
Cheers
I'm not sure the early Boxsters are having a great time at the moment.
They can be picked up for as little as 5k. The potential for an engine failure quite high with the cost of repair being probably twice the cost of the value of the car
Neither are they rare although they will be soon when they start getting scrapped due to uneconomical repair.
Triumph Stag?
Dad bought a new one in 73 @£2.5k (substantial amount at the time). Now a fine example can be picked up for £15k.
Maybe a classic but after 40 years hasn't proved to be a great investment.
They can be picked up for as little as 5k. The potential for an engine failure quite high with the cost of repair being probably twice the cost of the value of the car
Neither are they rare although they will be soon when they start getting scrapped due to uneconomical repair.
Triumph Stag?
Dad bought a new one in 73 @£2.5k (substantial amount at the time). Now a fine example can be picked up for £15k.
Maybe a classic but after 40 years hasn't proved to be a great investment.
Hi again. Few classic cars are good investments. Those rare exotics like big healeys and e types will usually cost more to restore than they are worth, even at the bottom end of the market the same is true, a midget, spitfire or MGB will cost £7-10k to restore properly and the former will never be worth more than £5-6k. MGBs perhaps upto £12 on a good day.
I've done ok over the years and kept my car money separate form the house funds and managed to buy the z but then I do nearly all my own work and have done quite a few cars from quick spruce ups to full on restorations.
You would get a very nice stag for £15k with a usable reliable example going for half that. Add the fun factor and as long as you don't actually loose too much then it's better than stashing cash in the bank. Minis are even cheaper starting at about a grand to well over £20 for a rare early cooper s
The classic car world is evolving and welcomes cars as recent at 2000 and values from £1000 to £1000000, the last outing I sat net to the owner of a £250000 Aston which the owner claimed was owned by Ian Fleming as was the reason James Bond drove an Aston. He was very interested in my stag!
I've done ok over the years and kept my car money separate form the house funds and managed to buy the z but then I do nearly all my own work and have done quite a few cars from quick spruce ups to full on restorations.
You would get a very nice stag for £15k with a usable reliable example going for half that. Add the fun factor and as long as you don't actually loose too much then it's better than stashing cash in the bank. Minis are even cheaper starting at about a grand to well over £20 for a rare early cooper s
The classic car world is evolving and welcomes cars as recent at 2000 and values from £1000 to £1000000, the last outing I sat net to the owner of a £250000 Aston which the owner claimed was owned by Ian Fleming as was the reason James Bond drove an Aston. He was very interested in my stag!