Front pipes/Secondary Cat delete (More SS fitment issues)

[tomrdy]

I've recently changed up my exhaust with the Supersprint Y + Powerloop backbox and loving it a lot.

While I was at the garage for the install, we had a look under the car and now I'm considering the SS front pipes kit for completeness and to have just a tinnnny amount more sound. Also gathering quotes for cutting/fab onto the standard pipes but I do like the idea of having the swappable kit and retain my original parts.

The interesting thing is that from all the diagrams and pictures I've looked at, the stock pipes have secondary cats on them - mine do too, but they also have little cans (I assume resonators) that go right before the axleback (which stock had a mixer/res + muffler). Maybe it's an AUS thing.



I'm hoping some one else has had experience with going axleback and then later adding front straight pipes as well to gauge how much change there will be.

I have read through some earlier threads that from what I gather, the opinion is the secondary cat delete will only increase volume by a little, until you're WOT? This would probably be ideal for me.

The tech at the exhaust shop said that it shouldn't create anymore drone with the cat delete, but not sure about the little cans which would get removed too.

 

[paulc_bkk]

watching.....

I've considered getting the small resonators removed, but too many other things (work and my gf's mini) have prevented me from messing with mine

 

[tomrdy]

I've considered getting the small resonators removed, but too many other things (work and my gf's mini) have prevented me from messing with mine

Well this arrived today finally so I'll be able to tell you what the difference going from just axleback to catback will be like Friday :evil:

These pipes do delete the secondary cats though so not exactly the same as just removing the small res but should be a useful comparison for future.



Ignore the extra sticker which is for my Powerloop muffler - SS printed the wrong label on mine and sent a replacement for it with my pipes.

 

[Haggisman]

I've considered getting the small resonators removed, but too many other things (work and my gf's mini) have prevented me from messing with mine

Having a similar car be interested to see how this all works out. Not sure best place to source Supersprint goodies from NZ though. Can I ask what the costs are? Thanks

Well this arrived today finally so I'll be able to tell you what the difference going from just axleback to catback will be like Friday :evil:

These pipes do delete the secondary cats though so not exactly the same as just removing the small res but should be a useful comparison for future.



Ignore the extra sticker which is for my Powerloop muffler - SS printed the wrong label on mine and sent a replacement for it with my pipes.

 

[tomrdy]

Hey haggisman I bought directly from Supersprints website.

https://www.supersprint.com/ww-en/supersprint-performance-sport-exhaust-bmw-z4-roadster-30i-1.aspx

I originally bought from a "local" dealer who charged me $200+ on-top for my muffler and literally drop shipped it to me from italy... So definitely don't do that. When I got the invoices and shipping manifests I realised they had absolutely no contribution in the process except took a significant portion of my money. Genius business idea as they don't keep stock, or even cash - I had to pay upfront.

Lesson learned.

I got my front pipes to my door for $628 AUD after exchange all paid for in PayPal sent direct from SS with TNT. The local dealer quoted me around $850 - which would include them clicking through checkout on the SS site for me :rofl:

Just make sure you set your country on the Supersprints website so all the VAT stuff is changed

 

[Haggisman]

Hey haggisman I bought directly from Supersprints website.

https://www.supersprint.com/ww-en/supersprint-performance-sport-exhaust-bmw-z4-roadster-30i-1.aspx

I originally bought from a "local" dealer who charged me $200+ on-top for my muffler and literally drop shipped it to me from italy... So definitely don't do that. When I got the invoices and shipping manifests I realised they had absolutely no contribution in the process except took a significant portion of my money. Genius business idea as they don't keep stock, or even cash - I had to pay upfront.

Lesson learned.

I got my front pipes to my door for $628 AUD after exchange all paid for in PayPal sent direct from SS with TNT. The local dealer quoted me around $850 - which would include them clicking through checkout on the SS site for me :rofl:

Just make sure you set your country on the Supersprints website so all the VAT stuff is changed

Great thanks, sure is difficult in the Southern Hemisphere to get stuff easily. The dealers here are exactly the same, good to hear that buying direct was easy.

I have a local guy who can cut and weld stainless steel to fabricate an exhaust but I’ve generally found better to buy a proven item.

Will be good to learn how you get on with the final piece. Cheers

 

[tomrdy]

UPDATE:

THE BAD: Supersprint fitment Issues

Well, this was not the post I wanted to write
___
If anyone can see any explanation that I'm missing please please do shout! I am happy to be wrong as I can't believe I paid so much for something so ill fitting.
___

We got the car up on the lift and I came to the conclusion that I will personally never buy a Supersprint product ever again. I know that other members have their system and had absolutely 0 issues, but the amount of problems I'm having shows that they have some big issues with their QA.

I've now got the parts for the full catback system from SS - muffler, y pipe and front pipes as a complete set which is most ideal and it absolutely does not fit. Yes the part numbers are correct! I had also confirmed and double checked with Supersprint which parts I was fitting with what on which car.

The front pipes appear to have been chopped short during manufacture by a proper margin :x



Our initial reaction at the shop was the Y pipe must be wrongly positioned - but unfortunately not the case. As you can see in the picture, the mounts for the Y pipe are fixed to the reinforcement plate and no adjustment available here to make up the giant gap.



Everything from header back is Supersprint so there's really no excuses. I had also contacted them previously to make sure I was not missing any parts - their response was I had everything I needed. My headers are original OEM so again, no excuse there.



Comparing the original pipes to the SS pipe...



So I was stuck making a decision on whether I abort and start the ordeal of trying to send back the parts (2+ weeks) and wait for them to figure out whats going on and maybe send another set out (2+ weeks)... then have it potentially still be faffed or have the guys at the shop sort it out.

Not wanting that stress and with no more confidence in SS due to my bad muffler fitment and this, I decided to have the guys at the shop extend the pipes for me.



I've sent all of this with pictures to Supersprint and I'm awaiting their response. Honestly I don't think they will own up to it ("It's installation mistake") so I'll be stuck footing the bill for the extra fabrications.

I also had them get the tail pipes sat perfectly. This did not involve just the hangers anymore as the actual bend in the muffler inlet was too far off especially after fitting the front pipes. The guys did some tweaking and now looks perfect now! I could probably move it slightly to the right by 5mm but that's something thats luckily easy to adjust.



..compared to out of the box....



Now the good part... :evil:

When I had the axleback portion, there was a very growly sound + burbles on lift off. Here are the changes with the straight through pipes up front:

- Idle has not changed
- Burbles and CRACKLES on lift off. YES!
- Drone has increased but has shifted 200-300 higher in the RPM. It is almost annoying if not for the other pros.
- There is added cabin vibration as the OEM pipes had a rubber damper. The vibration is now helping me discover new loose plastic parts that need padding :rofl:
- The sound high up in the rev range is LOUD. It's glorious and I love it - but it will get very old, very fast for my wife
- But dyno/placebo, whatever. I am 100% convinced that there is more power and torque now. The response at 2k is fantastic and the car feels so angry to drive both with the pacing and the sound.

So that's it! I wish the second portion was all I had to write about. I don't mean to bad mouth a company and I honestly considered just not sharing my experience as it makes me feel like a whinge but this is really what I've been through - take from it what you will.

Off for a drive now :driving:

 

[Piper1]

Man sorry to hear another round of bad luck, it's great it worked out in the end and you're pleased with it. To the new problem that you encountered it looks like the 2 sections that come in to the Y are shorter then mine are, the other thread you have with the pic I posted of the prefitment on the ground it looks like I have more pipe leading from section 2 to section 1

 

[LittleZ4]

Glad you got it sorted fella. You would of thought a company like SS would have had it checked prior to leaving the factory. I guess it's just one of those things......shame it happened to a Z4 owner and not...let's say a Corsa owner :roll:
So removing the secondary cats and resonator boxes has shifted the drone a little higher up the rev range, that's food for thought!!

 

[tomrdy]

Man sorry to hear another round of bad luck, it's great it worked out in the end and you're pleased with it. To the new problem that you encountered it looks like the 2 sections that come in to the Y are shorter then mine are, the other thread you have with the pic I posted of the prefitment on the ground it looks like I have more pipe leading from section 2 to section 1

Hey piper we were actually referencing your pic from that thread this morning to basically confirm that the pipes are totally too short and that we weren't blind somehow. Forum pics ftw!

Glad you got it sorted fella. You would of thought a company like SS would have had it checked prior to leaving the factory. I guess it's just one of those things......shame it happened to a Z4 owner and not...let's say a Corsa owner :roll:
So removing the secondary cats and resonator boxes has shifted the drone a little higher up the rev range, that's food for thought!!

It so far appears that way but I'll need more seat time to confirm as the whole system breaks in together :driving:

I definitely was peeved about the whole thing but life is just too short. Drove around a bit more and I stopped caring about the issues I had.

The cracks and pops... Just sensational. 3.5k seems to be the sweet spot. Rev it up and sloooowly let off the throttle makes just a bunch of noises that make dogs on the sidewalk bark. This is already pretty wild for me I can't imagine what the race muffler would do

Even coasting in 5th I'm hearing burbles. My car is like rolling thunder with occasional lighting shots.

Ok I'll stop rambling now I guess at the end of the day, I still got the smile on my dial I paid for

 

[LittleZ4]

Haha. Sounds good doesn't it!! I've got no back box on mine and I really enjoy the sound. Weirdly after reading this this morning I've just driven mine and it sounds like the exhaust is starting to blow.........must be time for some modding/upgrades

 

[R60BBA]

This is why you should never be loyal to one brand.

Having said that SS are the best performance exhaust manufacturer in the world and are actually known for their systems having OE fitment.

I believe you have just been unlucky, but then I don’t understand why you would buy SS front pipes either as any decent exhaust shop could fabricate the pipes using T304 stainless steel...

Imo and having bought from SS. It’s only worth going SS if you’re buying headers or mufflers.

As long as the correct materials and pipe sizing is used, I don’t see the benefit of using SS for other exhaust components (such as centre pipes, front pipes, cat deletes etc).

I’m pretty sure SS will sort out your issue and provide you with new pipes, not to mention all of their systems come with 2 year warranty.

Good luck

 

[tomrdy]

I believe you have just been unlucky, but then I don’t understand why you would buy SS front pipes either as any decent exhaust shop could fabricate the pipes using T304 stainless

So I did get quotes for pipes made custom but for the cost difference I decided to get SS for the (albeit superficial) completeness of the catback.

Totally agree, even more so now, that there would be no added value with SS since theyre just straight pipes anyway.

I would not want them to supply new pipes unless they also paid for the labour costs of refitting them to be honest. Best outcome for me would be they refund me a portion (or all) additional costs I had paid for the fab - which is probably cheaper than them sending a new part.

We shall see hopefully they respond well but I'm not holding my breath!

 

[tomrdy]

Supersprint Update:

Well after a bunch of back and forth with Supersprint in Italy, they have taken responsibility for the manufacturing defects and agreed to reimburse me for the shop time + materials (ideal scenario for me).

They also asked for lots of photos as well as descriptions of the modifications needed which were given to the technical team for review - I assume it was to investigate what went wrong.

I am still waiting for actual reimbursement - this will probably take a while - but glad that they did not shaft the customer.

I have asked them to update me on the result if possible (whether they had issues with the jig or human error) so that I can let others know if it's been fixed for future parts, but haven't heard back.

___

Front pipes update:

I've done roughly 700km with the set up now and there have been positives and negatives.

The good...

- The pops and bangs are awesome.
- Motor feels very strong
- The sound track when you're on-it is thunderous

The bad...

~2krpm drone is pretty bad now for daily use and getting on my nerves a bit especially when my wife is in the car as I'm just waiting for the exact moment she gets fed up :lol: . Not so much the volume but the actual vibration/frequency.

I can't converse with her properly when going up certain hills. I have had to change my driving style and climb at a higher gear, keeping RPM under 2k. Luckily the 3.0 can do this pretty comfortably. However, sometimes when you're driving and not thinking about it, the "right" gear you want to be in happens to be in drone-zone and its like "ugh".

The drone is so strong that there are a lot of annoying cabin vibrations from plastic trims. I have started the process of removing everything back to forwards to then dampen them with padding - really trying to just trying to hunt down 1-2 specific vibrations. The aluminum splash shield attached to the reinforcement plate (which is then attached to the exhaust) is also contributing some lovely buzzing sounds so I'll be taking that off to see what I can do... the end flappy bit it seems is the culprit but not sure how I can stop that from ... well flapping.

I have also ordered a bunch of noise dampening material to line the boot and perhaps the heat shields. If I can reduce the volume/vibrations by 10% combined with finding the annoying cabin vibrations, I should be good.

Side note regarding the actual tone/sound of the set up...

Outside the car, no contest - with the straight through front pipes is awesome.

Inside the cabin however, I actually prefer just the Y Pipe + powerloop. I think it's because with the front pipes done, there's just so much more vibration(?) coming through that the sound isn't that nice - it's quite raw and I suppose "raspy" vs a nice gurgly sound. This is of course 100% subjective!

Do I regret it? I little bit - the car is a tad ruined as a cruiser. However, as soon as I find a good stretch of road and punch it with all the pops and bangs, I immediately remember why I absolutely don't :evil: