from 1st to 2nd gear, feels "notchy"

[Old-Duckman]

I noticed this first when winding the car out for speed. I find if I push the clutch to the floor it is less noticeable but of course this slows down shifting some. This is not felt between any other gears. No grinding just the notchy feel.

Could this be a failing clutch slave cylinder?

I see from the Net that the brake master cylinder reservoir feeds the clutch slave cylinder so no separate place for clutch fluid.

Car is a 2004, 3.0, 6 speed manual.

I checked slave cylinder price on the net and they are reasonable, is it difficult to get to ? Do you need two people to bleed the system?

 

[tomrdy]

Common feeling amongst forum members I believe (myself included). If trying to go as quick as possible, 1st > 2nd can feel a bit rough.

I have not done it myself but I believe a good few members will recommend deleting the CDV (clutch delay valve). The CDV essentially "smooths" (slows down) the clutch movement with the idea of preventing abrupt contact to reduce shock-wear on components, at the cost of clutch wear. Logic would suggest this may attribute to the clunkiness as when going fast in those quick ratios, the clutch might not actually be fully disengaged when you yank it out of gear?

I installed an adjustable clutch stop for my pedal to remove the dead space so when going quick, I can drop the clutch straight to the floor and back up again. That in itself is another debate - whether you drive clutching to the floor or hover feet

 

[idej_z4]

As above about the clutch delay valve. Also replacing the gearbox oil helps a bit if you've never had it changed.

 

[Iggy]

Having done both a CDV delete and a gearbox oil change - as mentioned above - i can confirm both make a difference. The oil change was a temporary one, though. And i don't know if it's placebo or not, but a ZHP gear knob helps a little too. However, the clunky 1st-2nd change seems to be a characteristic of the car which is something I've come to terms with now. To be honest I'm so used to it i hardly notice anymore. The last thing i wanted to try but haven't got around to yet is changing engine and transmission mounts which apparently also helps.

 

[eddiemunster]

I noticed this first when winding the car out for speed.

It's far more likely to be worn synchro rings; if it does it from cold, but it's markedly better when warm, then it's more than likely the rings. Transmission oil is as much about heat dissipation than it is about lubrication, so over time its ability to do both will decrease and you'll get the symptoms you're having.

I usee a very high quality racing transmission oil in mine, same stuff I used to use in the rally cars, and that can transform a notchy box into one that operates like a Winchester. The two downsides to these types of oil are A. They're more expensive than standard tranmission oil, and B. They need to be changed more regularly (10's of thousands of miles rather than 80k you'd normally expect). On a daily driver that does 16k a year, probably not worth it, but on my Z4 that does 3k a year, definitely worth it as it'll outlast the car/my ownership.

 

[srhutch]

CDV won’t effect the gear change. The only thing it does is let the clutch out more slowly than you if you take your foot off the clutch quickly.

I’d always remove it, but it won’t change the notchiness

 

[Old-Duckman]

I noticed this first when winding the car out for speed.

It's far more likely to be worn synchro rings; if it does it from cold, but it's markedly better when warm, then it's more than likely the rings. Transmission oil is as much about heat dissipation than it is about lubrication, so over time its ability to do both will decrease and you'll get the symptoms you're having.

I usee a very high quality racing transmission oil in mine, same stuff I used to use in the rally cars, and that can transform a notchy box into one that operates like a Winchester.

Luckily it seems to be the same cold or hot. I have Red Line D4 ATF sitting here waiting for me to put it in, hopefully that will help some. Red Line does have a trans oil speced for racing applications but I didn’t know that would be a good choice for the Z. I’ll see how it goes with the D4, switching to the racing oil is good to know about and I’ll keep that info in mind.

 

[Old-Duckman]

For those who have changed out the CDV is it easily accessible once the covers are removed ? Seems like it would be a thing to do when changing the trans oil.

I did read that some people just take the stock valve out and punch the guts out of it with a hammer and a punch. Found some valves on the Net but seems like some of those may simply be drilled out stock valves. Why spend $30 if punching the guts out of the original part has the same effect ?

 

[eddiemunster]

Luckily it seems to be the same cold or hot. I have Red Line D4 ATF sitting here waiting for me to put it in, hopefully that will help some.

It's highly unlikely it'll do any damage, the only "risk" is that it would have to be changed more often as it works "harder" with the increased heat dissipation. The thinner the weight the better the feel from cold, an old motor trader's trick to disguise a shafted gearbox, but it can result in increased whine which can sound a little disconcerting. Having said that, I put in any car I do a gearbox flush on, and other than a nicer change I've never noticed anything untoward.

 

[eddiemunster]

Luckily it seems to be the same cold or hot. I have Red Line D4 ATF sitting here waiting for me to put it in, hopefully that will help some.

It's highly unlikely it'll do any damage, the only "risk" is that it would have to be changed more often as it works "harder" with the increased heat dissipation. The thinner the weight the better the feel from cold, an old motor trader's trick to disguise a shafted gearbox, but it can result in increased whine which can sound a little disconcerting. Having said that, I put it in any car I do a gearbox flush on, and other than a nicer change I've never noticed anything untoward.

 

[R60BBA]

It’s a characteristic of the car I’m afraid.

Some have mentioned a gearbox oil change - I would only do this if the car is due one, (ie it hasn’t been done in the last 50,000 miles or so) as from my experiences changing the box oil did not make a difference.

CDV delete won’t make a difference as mentioned either.

However usually I found that when the box was nice and warm the notchiness reduced somewhat.

 

[Old-Duckman]

It’s a characteristic of the car I’m afraid.

Some have mentioned a gearbox oil change - I would only do this if the car is due one, (ie it hasn’t been done in the last 50,000 miles or so) as from my experiences changing the box oil did not make a difference.

CDV delete won’t make a difference as mentioned either.

However usually I found that when the box was nice and warm the notchiness reduced somewhat.

I’m at 53K and change, so I’m due, (I doubt it was done by the previous owner) which like I said it’s on my list and I have the oil. Going to do the differential at the same time but not with the same oil of course.

 

[nightyard]

I had this problem with my 2.0 and 3.0, but not my 3.2

I had the oil done on the 2.0 and it felt like it helped a bit, but as mentioned above, it could have been a placebo effect!

 

[kic_Mike]

Mine's horrid going 1st-2nd when cold, notchy but not too bad when hot. When it's cold though it sometimes doesn't want to even go into gear - especially when going 2nd back to 1st at a junction for example.

Probably due gearbox oil change now (64k) so will do it while off the road due to this virus! Might remove CDV at the same time - sure I seen a thread on this somewhere if anyone wants to save me the 20 seconds it'll take to search.... :roll:

 

[R60BBA]

It’s a characteristic of the car I’m afraid.

Some have mentioned a gearbox oil change - I would only do this if the car is due one, (ie it hasn’t been done in the last 50,000 miles or so) as from my experiences changing the box oil did not make a difference.

CDV delete won’t make a difference as mentioned either.

However usually I found that when the box was nice and warm the notchiness reduced somewhat.

I’m at 53K and change, so I’m due, (I doubt it was done by the previous owner) which like I said it’s on my list and I have the oil. Going to do the differential at the same time but not with the same oil of course.

Get the fluids done and enjoy the car!

 

[Mr Tidy]

The manual gearboxes seem to be a bit variable.

My 1st 3.0Si was more notchy than my 2nd, which felt better still after an oil change and fitting a ZHP (but that may just have been wishful thinking). :laugh:

But both were way better than the box in my E90 330i with the same engine, and presumably same gearbox. That just doesn't want to go into 1st sometimes.

 

[LeeZ4MR]

Common feeling amongst forum members I believe (myself included). If trying to go as quick as possible, 1st > 2nd can feel a bit rough.

Yes and going quickly from 1st to 2nd in my Z4M really disappointed(annoyed) me. Strangely my manual E92 M3 didn't suffer as much doing the same thing though.

 

[Iggy]

Agree with the others - CDV delete doesn't have anything to do with the gearbox or the notchy feeling but it does improve the shifting experience as a whole .

 

[mr nurburgring]

Had my z4 for 11 years and it’s on 132k now and it’s always had clunky first and second gear, just one of those things.

 

[Davz]

Apparently BMW got a job lot of gearboxes from Massey Ferguson and fitted them to all z4's!