Folding mirror- saga

[bigwinn]

Some preliminary investigations before I really get into retrofitting a motor to my mirrors

Long story told short

Passenger folds on the button, the drivers doesn't

I worked on the principle that the drivers side was knocked off and replaced with a non motorised one- but now I'm not sure

I was going to look at retrofitting a motor into the casing, but decided to pop it off for a look see first.

Now I think standard mirrors are 5 wire (which controls the movement of the mirror glass and the heating (?) but I'm assuming all mirrors have heating

I think there are more wire combinations for:

- dimming photo-chromatic
- folding

I've had a look at a few mirrors on eBay etc but its hard to tell the wiring configurations

Questions then:

From the photos-

I have more than 5 wires- is this a motorised mirror and the motor has gone bad?



I've used the wiring guide here but I cant get the schematic to marry up to the wire colours I have
https://bmwteka.com/wds/en/e85/9a4a2269

If I read that right (assuming I have selected the right side of the car) that should have 2 wires for the motor that controls the fold- a red/black and red/green?

Thoughts?

Stuart

 

[bigwinn]

These are some shots of the loom of a powerfold and dimming unit on sale on eBay (passenger side or I'd have already bought it!!!)

Looks a similar number of wires and colours?

 

[Mr Tidy]

I don't know if it helps but I just had a look at the power-fold mirrors I bought and they have 7 wires in the connector, but the colours are slightly different. There are 2 black, 2 white, 1 red, 1 green and 1 yellow.

But they did come off a facelift.

 

[bigwinn]

I don't know if it helps but I just had a look at the power-fold mirrors I bought and they have 7 wires in the connector, but the colours are slightly different. There are 2 black, 2 white, 1 red, 1 green and 1 yellow.

But they did come off a facelift.

That helps immensely I can reference on the wiring diagram

Thank you

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, time for another stupid question. Is it possible you have a powerfold mirror but the switch is not selecting the right side one?

 

[bigwinn]

OK, time for another stupid question. Is it possible you have a powerfold mirror but the switch is not selecting the right side one?

As in the switch is defective?

 

[Zedebee]

Pics of powerfold and non powerfold here.
Not the best photos for detail of the wires though and both now sold.
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135439

Odd that I stated the powerfold mirror as having 9 wires, I must have counted them, as there are only 7 on the newTIS electrical schematic.

 

[bigwinn]

Pics of powerfold and non powerfold here.
Not the best photos for detail of the wires though and both now sold.
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135439

Odd that I stated the powerfold mirror as having 9 wires, I must have counted them, as there are only 7 on the newTIS electrical schematic.

Thanks Ben

Do you still have any mirrors that are dimming in the fleet?

I’ve got a hunch that this mirror in question is a dimming one- if you look at the shot of the internals, the purple and black wires terminate in a connector toward the outside of the car which has nothing connected??

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, time for another stupid question. Is it possible you have a powerfold mirror but the switch is not selecting the right side one?

As in the switch is defective?

That was my theory yes, but would mean there would have to be two sets of contacts inside the switch unit so not the most likely scenario really.

 

[bigwinn]

OK, time for another stupid question. Is it possible you have a powerfold mirror but the switch is not selecting the right side one?

As in the switch is defective?

That was my theory yes, but would mean there would have to be two sets of contacts inside the switch unit so not the most likely scenario really.

Still worth investigating as I don’t think the mirror glass movement is working

 

[Zedebee]

Pics of powerfold and non powerfold here.
Not the best photos for detail of the wires though and both now sold.
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135439

Odd that I stated the powerfold mirror as having 9 wires, I must have counted them, as there are only 7 on the newTIS electrical schematic.

Thanks Ben

Do you still have any mirrors that are dimming in the fleet?

I’ve got a hunch that this mirror in question is a dimming one- if you look at the shot of the internals, the purple and black wires terminate in a connector toward the outside of the car which has nothing connected??

I have the mirrors from your breaker on my project car. The mirror glass movement isn’t working on either side which is unlikely to be a coincidence, so I assumed it was the switch was defective although the powerfold button was definitely working before I removed the powerfold mirror and I have taken the switch apart and it looks ok. I don’t the mirrors were dimming, but will check.
Coupe doesn’t have autodimming on the options list.

 

[enuff_zed]

As in the switch is defective?

That was my theory yes, but would mean there would have to be two sets of contacts inside the switch unit so not the most likely scenario really.

Still worth investigating as I don’t think the mirror glass movement is working

How does the power supply work?
Is there a live feed straight to the mirror and the switch just sends a signal to it? That may explain why nothing is working?

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, I can't get a decent picture to add here, but newTIS shows a power supply to some kind of control module for the drivers mirror from fuse F27. This also gets input from the DSC, so I am guessing this is what makes them auto fold out when you get above about 10mph? Or stops you folding them in at speed?

There is another power supply from fuse F8 to the drivers door switch assembly, which then goes out to the three motors in the mirror: up/down, left/right, and fold.

 

[Zulu4]

Left and right mirrors have the exact same connector block on the ends of the wires, so I suppose you could take both mirrors off and temporarily connect them to their opposite sides (resting them on the seats) and then see what happens when you fiddle with the switches.
This could help determine if there is a fault with the mirror or the switch/control module.

 

[bigwinn]

OK, I can't get a decent picture to add here, but newTIS shows a power supply to some kind of control module for the drivers mirror from fuse F27. This also gets input from the DSC, so I am guessing this is what makes them auto fold out when you get above about 10mph? Or stops you folding them in at speed?

There is another power supply from fuse F8 to the drivers door switch assembly, which then goes out to the three motors in the mirror: up/down, left/right, and fold.

I was racking my brains why there was a link to dsc… of course there needed to be for the speed function!

Duh

I assume the control box in the diagram is the mirror folding control wired in the drivers side

 

[bigwinn]

Left and right mirrors have the exact same connector block on the ends of the wires, so I suppose you could take both mirrors off and temporarily connect them to their opposite sides (resting them on the seats) and then see what happens when you fiddle with the switches.
This could help determine if there is a fault with the mirror or the switch/control module.

That’s a great shout Rob- I’ll give that a go

 

[bigwinn]

I had a few minutes for digging- my original hunch is starting to pay off (I think)

On the drivers mirror I can account for all the wires heading into the unit- see pic

Red green and white seem to drive the glass of the mirror in the 2 axes up/down
Two black are for mirror heating
Remaining purple and black end in the mystery plug with nothing plugged into- so I am assuming that because of its location is the photo chromatic connector

Now- popping the face off the working passenger mirror; see pic



Spot the differences

There is a connector plug situated at the top of the mirror (not the side) which has white/yellow cables heading off toward the mirror base area
The base of the plastic looks different like its a sealed motor unit of some sort and there is a plastic spacer in the mix too-

The drivers side has a twine/string set up running to the base- I assume to add the tension into the manual fold, which the passenger side doesn't

Thoughts on my original theory?

So now to see if I can arrange fitment of a motor into the assembly and re wire the redundant purple and black into the right pins to act as the pulse/power

 

[Mr Tidy]

Is the passenger side one supposed to dip towards the kerb when you select reverse?

My E90 one does (or it used to) so maybe that is why it is different. :?

 

[bigwinn]

Is the passenger side one supposed to dip towards the kerb when you select reverse?

My E90 one does so maybe that is why it is different. :?

After reading reams of google search entries I believe that was never a fitted option on a prefacelift Z4, regardless of options fitted and manual/auto status

I need to get out more

 

[bigwinn]

I've decided to gamble

Just bought an e46 coupe powerfold drivers side mirror...

I had an e46 coupe and recall the mirrors swivelling up- like the e85 ones (as opposed to e46 saloon/touring which go straight back when folding)... so will see if I can transplant mech

The positive is that the wires that appear to be driving the mirror movement in an e46 are also yellow and white...

I'll let you know how it plays out