First gear needs more throttle than you'd think?

J

jmb

Member
I don't know if this is normal or not, but my 23i manual needs more than the "expected" amount of throttle to accelerate briskly in 1st gear.
I pick up drive and it's normal, then goes sort of flat and the engine seems unwilling to properly increase speed for a throttle input of "x"- it still speeds up and is perfectly smooth with no misfiring, and if I put my foot down more it'll happily speed up at the expected rate. The weird thing is that every other gear is fine, so I can short-shift to 2nd at a low speed (say 10mph) and the same "x" throttle input sees it take off normally... same for all other gears.

Anyone else notice this? Is it some built in protection for the drivetrain? If it was a dodgy tps I'd expect it to be the same in all gears...
 
I think I kind of know what you mean. I haven't gotten to the bottom of it myself. I have some ideas which I need to test and the come back with...
 
jmb said:
I don't know if this is normal or not, but my 23i manual needs more than the "expected" amount of throttle to accelerate briskly in 1st gear.
I pick up drive and it's normal, then goes sort of flat and the engine seems unwilling to properly increase speed for a throttle input of "x"- it still speeds up and is perfectly smooth with no misfiring, and if I put my foot down more it'll happily speed up at the expected rate. The weird thing is that every other gear is fine, so I can short-shift to 2nd at a low speed (say 10mph) and the same "x" throttle input sees it take off normally... same for all other gears.

Anyone else notice this? Is it some built in protection for the drivetrain? If it was a dodgy tps I'd expect it to be the same in all gears...
Click to expand...

A lot of cars these days have mapping that limits the torque output in the lower gears to make the car more controllable, as you change up the gears you are able to access the full amount of power.
regards
 
Yeah, with sport mode on it doesn't do it... I think it's just the mapping (as Smartbear mentioned) in first gear is pretty conservative
 
Probably the torque limit in 1st as has been mentioned. I briefly had a Fiesta ST with the Mountune map on it. 1st is stupidly restricted. 2nd flies in comparison. A 1 litre Fiesta feels quicker than the ST in 1st as they have been over cautious - bet it is the same here !
 
The normal mode seems rather pointless in a sports car. Certainly in the 23i.
First thing I do at first start is to put the car into sport mode so that it will pull away smoothly.
I wish the car was always in sport mode with the lighter steering and be done with.
One day will wire in a simple pulse circuit to automatically set the car in sport mode rather than keep pressing that darned button!
 
flybobbie said:
The normal mode seems rather pointless in a sports car. Certainly in the 23i.
First thing I do at first start is to put the car into sport mode so that it will pull away smoothly.
I wish the car was always in sport mode with the lighter steering and be done with.
One day will wire in a simple pulse circuit to automatically set the car in sport mode rather than keep pressing that darned button!
Click to expand...


I just leave mine in normal old farts mode when in traffic. I Find it a little too lively around the doors (3.0l)
Do you find the steering goes lighter in sports mode? I thought mine was a little heavier ?..
 
flybobbie said:
.......I wish the car was always in sport mode with the lighter steering and be done with.....,
Click to expand...

Yours goes light on sport mode or you want it light with sport?
 
I want it light on sport mode.
I want the throttle response with the lighter steering.
To me it feels rather truck like, but I feel that's the cost of the loss of feel due the electric steering.
My steering is quite heavy already compared to a friends car which has the Servotronic option. (£500 software upgrade).
I do have 17 inch non rft's so they might grip more making steering heavier.
Never had any concerns about the weight of steering in all the cars I have had, from Tr7's ,Mazda Rx7, Chevettes, Peugeots, Mr 2, Lada's, Mgtf.
I think BMW have made it heavy to stop us chucking the rear end out.
The steering felt nicer with a bit of weight in the boot, a couple of paving slabs!
Wondered if the level sensors for the headlight had any of its signal fed to the steering control.

The only BMW I had driven before was 1 Series and that steering was heavy and notchy gearbox.
But a latest model had very nice steering and gearbox. Which the service guy at the dealership agreed that they had sorted the steering and gearbox on that later model.
 
That a rather unusual request I think. Manufacturers normally firm up the steering in sport mode to give more driver feel by taking away the assistance.

They stop the rear stepping out in Normal mode by some clever electronic sensors connected up to the ecu and the traction control system..

Sport mode allows a bit more freedom of the back end.
 
I've had my 2011 23I auto for just over a week, and also find that in normal mode it hesitates badly when pulling away in first gear, especially when not warmed up. Works fine in Sport mode, so tend to use Sport mode most of the time unless sat in heavy traffic round town.
Is there a fix for the first gear hesitation in Normal mode?
 
I just use Sport mode all the time on mine. Muscle memory to flick the switch once I start up. I wish it could be set as the default :(
 
jmb said:
I just use Sport mode all the time on mine. Muscle memory to flick the switch once I start up. I wish it could be set as the default :(
Click to expand...
Snap, so others agree.
I think the 23i is just under torqued at low revs and I use sport most of the time.
Even then get the occasional hesitation, if I'm not consciously giving it some extra throttle.
Something I have never had on any vehicle.
 
That sounds like a PITA - and why do that to the 23i - maybe the 35i needs it?

Sadly the newer cars get the more they are driven by software rather than driver instruction!

Don't ever use Sport on my E86 - as far as I can see it just means everything happens in the first half of the accelerator travel, but that just makes the second half a bit pointless! If I am in a hurry the pedal is buried in the carpet anyway! :driving:
 
Same here, no problem in sports mode.
I've been going to ask who uses Sport or Normal. I use Normal in heavy traffic, but it goes in sport as soon as possible.
 
Yep, same here . First button I hit is the sports one
The second is the bloody infuriating 'devils' button, cleverly disguised as Auto 'start/stop' :evil:
 
Have had a 23i for just under a week and have noticed the same issue. Interesting what everyone is saying about pulling away in sports mode, I will give that a try tomorrow.
 
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