FAO USA - where is the con?
- Thread starter bulldog5046
- Start date
BMWZ4MC: Yes! very well said. Every system that the government manages or starts will be fine at first. But! we americans look at the past to view into the future. There has NEVER been a program started by the government that has ended up costing what they said it would. We call it a slippery slope. Everything at first is fine, then about 1/4 of the way down if you slip it will be hard to stop the fall. And once a government starts a program it is a very rare event to make them stop.
One needs look no further than our social security retirement system. When FDR started it in the 1930's. Every pensioner was paid through the taxes from 20-25 people. Latest figures are that every pensioner is paid with the taxes from 4-5 people. And of course all the monies that where put into the retirement system were to be left alone. But that changed in the 60's when the politicians just could not resist sticking their hands into that pile of money. So now instead of every pensioner check being funded by this account. It is funded by handing money from one tax payer to another. In a few years the government will start to borrow money to pay pensions due to there being less than one tax payer to fund one pensioner. It WILL be the same with national health care. And the last I checked the cost of running the government retirement was .60 cents on the dollar. Would you do business with a bank that charged you 60p to deposit 1quid. I would hope not.
That is the main complaint about government programs by US citizens. They take our money and spend it like a drunken sailor. And when they are broke they come to us and insist that we give them more money to make up the money they wasted. And then once again waste it. And I do not foresee politicians becoming honest and responsible anytime soon.
Can you imagine going to your employer and telling them that you just bought a new ferrari and a large mansion which you cannot afford, and so they are required to give you a substantial pay increase. How long do you think they will employ you. I live within my means. I demand that the government do the same.
I trust my doctor and insurance company more than a politician. There is more honor among street criminals than in the halls of government.
Government run health care may sound great in theory and on paper. But it takes an honest person(s) to run it. Which leaves the government out. And if your private insurance is maltreating you, you can take your money elsewhere. The government is the top of the food chain, what do you do if they are maltreating you.
One needs look no further than our social security retirement system. When FDR started it in the 1930's. Every pensioner was paid through the taxes from 20-25 people. Latest figures are that every pensioner is paid with the taxes from 4-5 people. And of course all the monies that where put into the retirement system were to be left alone. But that changed in the 60's when the politicians just could not resist sticking their hands into that pile of money. So now instead of every pensioner check being funded by this account. It is funded by handing money from one tax payer to another. In a few years the government will start to borrow money to pay pensions due to there being less than one tax payer to fund one pensioner. It WILL be the same with national health care. And the last I checked the cost of running the government retirement was .60 cents on the dollar. Would you do business with a bank that charged you 60p to deposit 1quid. I would hope not.
That is the main complaint about government programs by US citizens. They take our money and spend it like a drunken sailor. And when they are broke they come to us and insist that we give them more money to make up the money they wasted. And then once again waste it. And I do not foresee politicians becoming honest and responsible anytime soon.
Can you imagine going to your employer and telling them that you just bought a new ferrari and a large mansion which you cannot afford, and so they are required to give you a substantial pay increase. How long do you think they will employ you. I live within my means. I demand that the government do the same.
I trust my doctor and insurance company more than a politician. There is more honor among street criminals than in the halls of government.
Government run health care may sound great in theory and on paper. But it takes an honest person(s) to run it. Which leaves the government out. And if your private insurance is maltreating you, you can take your money elsewhere. The government is the top of the food chain, what do you do if they are maltreating you.
JimmyPop - absolutely agree with you
Ksher - "Do surgeons only work in operating theatre? And GP/doctors only diagnose patients?"
Not at all, as doctors we're all diagnosticians, it's just the form of the subsequent treatment that varies. I'm simply referring to the longstanding rivalry that exists between physicians and surgeons.
Smokin - much appreciated!
BigDog - we have similar problems with state pensions here, and with an ever-ageing population this can only deteriorate. The problem that we face in the UK is how we should tackle the continued funding of our healthcare system. There really is no clear answer, but I suspect that we will move towards some form of part-private system not dissimilar to that of the USA.
Ksher - "Do surgeons only work in operating theatre? And GP/doctors only diagnose patients?"
Not at all, as doctors we're all diagnosticians, it's just the form of the subsequent treatment that varies. I'm simply referring to the longstanding rivalry that exists between physicians and surgeons.
Smokin - much appreciated!
BigDog - we have similar problems with state pensions here, and with an ever-ageing population this can only deteriorate. The problem that we face in the UK is how we should tackle the continued funding of our healthcare system. There really is no clear answer, but I suspect that we will move towards some form of part-private system not dissimilar to that of the USA.
Ah, I can't call myself a proper surgeon just yet - got my Part B exam end of this month. And my FRCS a long way in the future! There's no way I would ever change but - love (nearly) everything about my job. Even the rubbish 24 hour city-wide on calls as I'm doing at the moment have their exciting moments!
And ksher - we'll be coming out of the woodwork before you know it!
And ksher - we'll be coming out of the woodwork before you know it!
It seems to me that the only time I use our system I end up on a table with surgeons playing with sharp knives close by. :wink:
I'd be screwed without those guys.
Two Neurosurgeons for 5 hours was the last time, before that I kept a couple of Urologists in gas money for their Mercedes'. :lol:
Like I said, our system has been good for me so far.
I'd be screwed without those guys.
Two Neurosurgeons for 5 hours was the last time, before that I kept a couple of Urologists in gas money for their Mercedes'. :lol: Like I said, our system has been good for me so far.
bigdog said:
IMO you have two conflicting problems....
1) Public sector projects are always screwed from the outset. It's in the interest of everyone involved to keep the project going endlessly, for costs to rise, more money to be spent, more people recruited....because profit / loss is irrelevant. That's how the NHS can spend billions on software that doesn't work...it could never happen in the real world because NHS Ltd would have gone bust. It's not in the interest of hospital management to stand up and say 'you know what, I am being paid £50k to sit here and delegate responsibility to other managers....I'm not needed, how about you drop my position and put that money into providing more frontline staff?' And if they did that, Brown couldn't stand their and tell the country 'I created 2,500,000 jobs'. With a straight face.
2) On the other side of the coin, governments need to legislate / provide for areas that are good for the people but the private sector won't cover. Take low income families who cannot afford insurance...but who should pay? I work, I pay my insurance, why should I cover Joe Six Pack? It's his problem, etc etc.
Reconciling 1 and 2 is very tricky....I'm all for small government which intervenes only when necessary, and so I cannot stand the situation we have in the UK. But I can also see major flaws with the US system, which Obama has tried to patch....though he may fall foul of 1). It ain't easy....
BMWZ4MC: If it were to stop at a blended system of a little public and mostly private. That might be fine. But there are many of our politicians, such as the speaker of the house. And many others that have been on the record stating that we MUST have 100% government provided & run health care insurance. And if you refuse to buy this policy, they WILL send the tax agents after you. and force you to buy it.
Which by the way, is contrary to our constitution.
Once the government is allowed to run health care they have said that the above scenario is the ultimate goal. For now though, they want to regulate "just to make it fair for everyone" Hence the slippery slope.
I agree that it is a very tough situation we have placed our selves in.
And of course the ever present liberal media paints a picture that if one is against the government plan. then you are a heartless conservative and want babies to die in the street.
And if one is for the plan. then you are enlightened and caring.
PS I do enjoy the fact that even with a highly charged subject such as politics. Everyone has remained very civilized in the exchange of ideas and opinions. Bravo, ladies & gentlemen
Which by the way, is contrary to our constitution.
Once the government is allowed to run health care they have said that the above scenario is the ultimate goal. For now though, they want to regulate "just to make it fair for everyone" Hence the slippery slope.
I agree that it is a very tough situation we have placed our selves in.
And of course the ever present liberal media paints a picture that if one is against the government plan. then you are a heartless conservative and want babies to die in the street.
And if one is for the plan. then you are enlightened and caring.
PS I do enjoy the fact that even with a highly charged subject such as politics. Everyone has remained very civilized in the exchange of ideas and opinions.
Bravo, ladies & gentlemenbulldog5046 said:
Federal income tax for an income of :
$32,000 to $82,400 is 25%.
$82,400 to $171,850 is 28%
There is no state Income tax in Florida. The general sales tax is 6%. (mostly anything but food)
other cons: Spring Break annually, hurricanes, Tiger Woods
To clarify the interest you pay on a mortgage is a deduction from you total/gross income. Whatever deductions you have are applied as a reduction to your total/gross income to arrive at your TAXABLE income.mikedav said:WLH said:
28% tax and you can claim the interest back on your mortgage...stunning. Imagine if we had that, especially for those with interest only mortgages...
Why do we stay here again? LOL