FAO JOHN.... (exdos)

[Beedub]

JOHNNNNN delete your pms..... i cant pm you for some reason....

anyway... this wasn't confidential so heres the info you asked for, i tried to take some pics of the z4m top mounts is this what you wanted???? In terms of the uniball solid mounts that i run on the Clubsport setup ( same setup used in the new m3 GTS ala kw clubsport) they are definitely adding significant NVH, im guessing the 2 diagonal bars are "transmitting" this directly to the cabin, luckily i quite like the taught sensation, but i see why your trying to go another route, i also see why BMW use such a large amount of rubber on the top-mounts, however the plus point with the top mounts are they really add a new feel i directness and the feeling through the wheel is pretty wonderful..... Hope this helps anyway.

Heres the clubsport Uniball solid topmount, all rubber has been removed from this completely, front solid reinforcement plates were added to protect the turret , camber is currently set at -2.7, which is pretty extreme But with the sprint circuit usage thrown in tyre wear is completely equal across the tyre...

heres the uniball solid top from underneath showing the reinforcement plate, this is definitely needed on linear sprung race setups and imo should be done on ANY aftermarket suspension, you can see the solid topmount is covered by the black reinforcement plate that shapes into the "dome". ( ignore the unadjusted suspension height, this was during install).

 

[Beedub]

John, still think you should leave the top mount stock as i know you dont want the NVH and add camber shims on the bottom... this is such a nice setup without going hardcore..

 

[exdos]

Byron,

I had room for only one more PM in my inbox so that's probably what prevented anything getting through to me? I've just been into my PMs and deleted a few to make room.

Thanks for this! What I want to know is this: if I knock out the three bolts from the galvanised top mounts, would I then be able to reverse them and insert them from above and use the nuts on the underside of the galvanised part of the top mount in the space, if any, above the black spring pad?

I agree that it is a superb bit of engineering and all I want to do is make it possible to angle the strut back by about 2 degrees to increase the caster angle, which I think will be of benefit.

If I can't remove the bolts and reverse them, then It would be quite easy to weld the galvanised top mount onto a new plate which will do this, but I'd prefer to use bolts rather than welding, because using bolts is reveresible, whereas once I use a welder, I've damaged the top mounts, which I'd prefer not to do. Do you reckon there's room to do this?

 

[Beedub]

hold on.... now i get you.... let me go and have another look.

 

[Beedub]

their is space above the spring pad.... i just prised the part away from the galvanised piece.... i reckon you have around 4mm to play with....... you idea seems completely possible.... the studs are press fit so you could just press them out....using a shorter press stud would work even nicer..... i have some short studs if you want them, my KW clubsports came with ones too short so i had to special order longer ones you see installed... i kept the stock KW short units...

 

[exdos]

John, still think you should leave the top mount stock as i know you dont want the NVH and add camber shims on the bottom... this is such a nice setup without going hardcore..

I've experimented with lots of different set-ups with my Z3MC and I don't like much more than -1.6 static camber when driving on our dreadful public roads, and I much prefer higher caster angles, which actually increases dynamic negative camber more than you get with higher static camber angles. I'm wanting to repeat this in my Z4MC.

 

[Beedub]

^^^^

answered above

 

[exdos]

their is space above the spring pad.... i just prised the part away from the galvanised piece.... i reckon you have around 4mm to play with.......

4mm is less than the thickness of the nuts, so I'll probably have to weld a plate onto the top mount.

If there was more space, then I would've had some plates professionally machined from billet aluminium, and it would've been possible to have fitted them without removing the struts, but since I'll now have to use steel for my plates (so it can be welded), I'll make these parts myself and remove the struts to fit.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[exdos]

i have some short studs if you want them, my KW clubsports came with ones too short so i had to special order longer ones you see installed... i kept the stock KW short units...

If retaining studs were possible, I'll need countersunk heads because a flat caster plate will be bolted onto the upper surface of the top mount, directly over the studs. Thanks for the offer though, much appreciated.

 

[Beedub]

i see your direction here...... i guess your main objective is to keep the rubber....

why dont you try a solid setup like mine and see how you get on??? the vorshlag plates are pretty much the best in the business, give them a try... also nitron in the Uk have a very nice setup

 

[exdos]

There's a LOT of rubber around the bearings in the OEM top mounts as you can see, and I don't really want to lose that "insulator". I'll try the caster plate idea first and see how that goes. If I can't make it work, then I'll go for the Vorshlag plates.

 

[sixspeed]

Just thought I'd chime in here as may have an alternative if you are looking for camber/caster adjustable top-mount options. I use the KMAC Road/Race adjustable top-mounts (http://www.k-mac.com.au/). They are urethane-bushed so not anywhere near as harsh as solid mounts, but still far more direct than standard, and with more adjustability than the KW mounts (camber and caster - IIRC, KW only adjusts camber).

In terms of NVH, I cannot compare them with stock as they went on with the Clubsport suspension when it was fitted to my Z but I do not experience any discernable vibration or harshness from them into the cabin.

 

[exdos]

Just thought I'd chime in here as may have an alternative if you are looking for camber/caster adjustable top-mount options. I use the KMAC Road/Race adjustable top-mounts (http://www.k-mac.com.au/). They are urethane-bushed so not anywhere near as harsh as solid mounts, but still far more direct than standard, and with more adjustability than the KW mounts (camber and caster - IIRC, KW only adjusts camber).

In terms of NVH, I cannot compare them with stock as they went on with the Clubsport suspension when it was fitted to my Z but I do not experience any discernable vibration or harshness from them into the cabin.

Thanks for giving your comments.

I have K-Mac Stage 1 camber/caster plates on my Z3MC and find they work very well. Unfortunately, they don't make that variant for the Z4MC, but at least the Stage 2 variant has some polyurethane around the bearing. I think that for me, those might be a better alternative to the Vorshlags.

I'm part way through fabricating some fixed caster plates, so I'll probably make them and then remove the front suspension off one side of the car and see if I can bolt the plate onto the OEM top mount, and if I can't then try those K-Mac stage 2s.