EVs
- Thread starter TitanTim
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I do give a shite about climate change, but you are right Pondrew, the only reason I have a EV is because of the BIK incentive. For company car drivers, EVs are a game-changingly cheaper prospect than petrol or diesel. To be honest, I think EVs are just as damaging to the environment as combustion engines and I’d rather not have one at all. Ultimately, it is all about the money.pondrew said:
Spaldingski
Pondrew said:I think you will be OK Tim, what with the 200 miles a year you do in it!TitanTim said:I will try my best not to feel guilty pulling up alongside an EV at the lights blipping my straight 6Might get left behind though :lol:
Tim.
And just think how much I'm saving the planet
Tim.
Love Harry Metcalf, I find he gives a balanced view on the cars he drives, I thought his review of the new i5 M60 was spot on, a truly pointless car! His main points on EV's were interesting and made a lot of sense, who wants a used EV if you have no idea of the battery condition, who wants that risk.
Apologies if this is hijacking the thread so please ignore but felt I had to respond.
First of all I also apologise for the capital letters in my post. It wasn't like that when I posted it and it looks and no doubt reads all wrong.
There is no doubt climate change is happening, I think we all agree on that. What is in dispute is whether its a natural occurring phenomenon or it's man made. So lets look at the facts rather than opinions.
CO2 is the main greenhouse gas that is blamed. By volume, the air in Earth's atmosphere CO2 makes up only of 0.04% of the Earths atmosphere. Again depending on which source you use the percentage of CO2 produced by man against that produced naturally is between 45 & 75%. So lets take the higher figure man made of 75%.
If my calculations are correct, man is responsible for only 0.03% of CO2 in the atmosphere (Of which we in the UK are responsible for less than 1% of that).
I suspect you will find that El Nino effect, a naturally occurring phenomena has a lot more effect on the climate than such low percentages of CO2, man made or otherwise.
If that is not enough for thought, the most efficient greenhouse gas that is rarely if ever considered is water vapour which is on average 4% of the atmosphere and we have no control over that.
There are many eras in world history where temperatures have fluctuated by many more degrees than the 1.5% currently quoted and that was long before cars and the industrial revolution.
Some / many may disagree of course
First of all I also apologise for the capital letters in my post. It wasn't like that when I posted it and it looks and no doubt reads all wrong.
There is no doubt climate change is happening, I think we all agree on that. What is in dispute is whether its a natural occurring phenomenon or it's man made. So lets look at the facts rather than opinions.
CO2 is the main greenhouse gas that is blamed. By volume, the air in Earth's atmosphere CO2 makes up only of 0.04% of the Earths atmosphere. Again depending on which source you use the percentage of CO2 produced by man against that produced naturally is between 45 & 75%. So lets take the higher figure man made of 75%.
If my calculations are correct, man is responsible for only 0.03% of CO2 in the atmosphere (Of which we in the UK are responsible for less than 1% of that).
I suspect you will find that El Nino effect, a naturally occurring phenomena has a lot more effect on the climate than such low percentages of CO2, man made or otherwise.
If that is not enough for thought, the most efficient greenhouse gas that is rarely if ever considered is water vapour which is on average 4% of the atmosphere and we have no control over that.
There are many eras in world history where temperatures have fluctuated by many more degrees than the 1.5% currently quoted and that was long before cars and the industrial revolution.
Some / many may disagree of course
Once they ban air travel, then its time to worry.
When people like Taylor Swift, just last week took a flight that only took 13 minutes, are allowed to do this why should anybody else take it seriously?
Im not saying that climate change is not happening but I think we are being manipulated into how serious it is.
When people like Taylor Swift, just last week took a flight that only took 13 minutes, are allowed to do this why should anybody else take it seriously?
Im not saying that climate change is not happening but I think we are being manipulated into how serious it is.
Nanu said:
That's not the right way to express it. What I think you mean is 3 basis points of carbon dioxide, or as you initially put it, up to three quarters of the total amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. So to flip that around, if we increased the concentration of carbon dioxide from 0.01% to 0.04% of the atmosphere then we have quadrupled it (I don't think that's exactly what has happened, though). The first thing that I found when I Googled the reason for carbon dioxide being an issue even though it's a small percentage of our atmosphere was this: https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/ It suggested in 2019 we were on our way to doubling the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. I haven't done further due diligence to validate the article's sources, I'm just providing this as a counterpoint to your comments. The article mentions water vapour as well.
Nictrix said:
Oh it's serious, there is no doubt. The rate of change cannot be put down to natural cycles; nature works in millennia, we are talking tens, or at most, a few hundred years. It's us, nothing else. But......
When the supermarkets stop selling soft fruit in January from all over the world (we had some cherries from Nigeria in the fridge and lettuce from somewhere like Nicaragua the other day) and Amazon drivers don't drive 10 yards between drop offs in their diesel vans, then I will take what I do seriously.
The exponential growth increase in delivered goods must be having a major impact on CO2 emissions. But it's OK cos it's convenient so just get an EV (of which the electricity to charge make up still includes burning coal in the UK) and everything will be right with the world.
We are doomed...we really are as there is no real appetite for any significant change. Luckily for all the people on forums like this, we will be gone before it comes to a head (but our grandchildren won't).
It's February 10th and my shrubs are starting to grow; I have daffodils just about to flower in the garden and I need to mow the grass! AND I live 120 miles further North than I ever have and NEVER had daffs in February when I lived down South!
Pondrew said:Nictrix said:
Oh it's serious, there is no doubt. The rate of change cannot be put down to natural cycles; nature works in millennia, we are talking tens, or at most, a few hundred years. It's us, nothing else. But......
When the supermarkets stop selling soft fruit in January from all over the world (we had some cherries from Nigeria in the fridge and lettuce from somewhere like Nicaragua the other day) and Amazon drivers don't drive 10 yards between drop offs in their diesel vans, then I will take what I do seriously.
The exponential growth increase in delivered goods must be having a major impact on CO2 emissions. But it's OK cos it's convenient so just get an EV (of which the electricity to charge make up still includes burning coal in the UK) and everything will be right with the world.
We are doomed...we really are as there is no real appetite for any significant change. Luckily for all the people on forums like this, we will be gone before it comes to a head (but our grandchildren won't).
It's February 10th and my shrubs are starting to grow; I have daffodils just about to flower in the garden and I need to mow the grass! AND I live 120 miles further North than I ever have and NEVER had daffs in February when I lived down South!
Pondrew said:
Is climate change any more of an issue now though?
In Dickensian times the Thames used to freeze and they'd have ice fairs on it! So global warming isn't exactly a new thing.
I had some raspberries from Morocco earlier FWIW.
And dahn Souf I've got 3 daffodils that have flowered!
Still don't want an EV though.
You shouldn't, though, not in February.Mr Tidy said:
Nor do I. EVs are not the answer, anymore than Air Source Heat Pumps are. But it's the only things the UK Government have, so let's push them to the hilt (all persuaded by multi-billion pound companies with multiple lobbyists whispering in the ears of Whitehall employees).
Two reasons for having an EV:
- the BIK level makes it really cheap to own and drive
- with the risk of a labour government, it means even more strikes and fuel blockades. At least have an alternative to drive around with whilst I leave the petrol cars at home.
As for air travel, I don’t understand why it is a subject never mentioned. It is cheaper for me to fly to Manchester than take a train.
- the BIK level makes it really cheap to own and drive
- with the risk of a labour government, it means even more strikes and fuel blockades. At least have an alternative to drive around with whilst I leave the petrol cars at home.
As for air travel, I don’t understand why it is a subject never mentioned. It is cheaper for me to fly to Manchester than take a train.
Whats rather ironic is that as Pond says, the changes we are seeing have been seen before yes, but not at the speed scale and upward curve in fact looking at the earth historically we can see over the course of thousands of years even a small change in the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere caused the ice ages/heat ages that we know happened. So nature has put in place a warning for us, it is right there serving as history lesson for us, yet we choose to ignore it because its only a 'little bit of change' 
Lots of change is needed, energy production, diets, agriculture, emissions, wastage but most of all covering all that is lifestyle changes, and as a species especially in the coveted western economies we are not that good at it, we like to sit in a bubble and think everything is ok, keep calm and carry on. I mean we all like a giggle at Greta memes and the like, but when she was campaigning about climate change AS A CHILD we had grown adults sending her personal abuse and even death threats. That's where some people are at in terms of lifestyle and not wanting to change.
Lots of change is needed, energy production, diets, agriculture, emissions, wastage but most of all covering all that is lifestyle changes, and as a species especially in the coveted western economies we are not that good at it, we like to sit in a bubble and think everything is ok, keep calm and carry on. I mean we all like a giggle at Greta memes and the like, but when she was campaigning about climate change AS A CHILD we had grown adults sending her personal abuse and even death threats. That's where some people are at in terms of lifestyle and not wanting to change.
I dont think if it in terms of saving the planet. I cant. I work in oil and gas and have seen ground flares that probably produce more emissions in a minute than i could contribute to in my lifetime. I think of it more in terms of natural resource conservation and efficiency. Where will all the plastics and pharma products come from? How do you build a wind turbine without plastc or a solar panel? Derive it from plants? Use crop or tree growing land?
I got a used Etron as I wanted to get rid of an old x5 I had. I didnt want to get another 3 litre diesel. Also it wasnt Ulez compliant. The Etron is a good car. Forget the environmental and emissions arguments. Its a good car. Battery technology will improve and make them better. But they will still knacker the planet. Its us that are knackering the planet. Its us that are vain enough to think we can solve it. But we need to use all resources in a more efficient way. The planet doesnt care. Its recycled itself a few times. Just takes a few billion years. Still wont stop me from enjoying a weekend jaunt in a snarling M car though.
I got a used Etron as I wanted to get rid of an old x5 I had. I didnt want to get another 3 litre diesel. Also it wasnt Ulez compliant. The Etron is a good car. Forget the environmental and emissions arguments. Its a good car. Battery technology will improve and make them better. But they will still knacker the planet. Its us that are knackering the planet. Its us that are vain enough to think we can solve it. But we need to use all resources in a more efficient way. The planet doesnt care. Its recycled itself a few times. Just takes a few billion years. Still wont stop me from enjoying a weekend jaunt in a snarling M car though.
No need to worry Pondrew, 2000 years ago the Romans used to grow grapes and hops around here and it’s certainly not warm enough to do that now.
PS. We also have plenty daffs about to bloom which is normal for me, should have the first rose buds showing in the next 4/5 weeks or so if it stops raining
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PS. We also have plenty daffs about to bloom which is normal for me, should have the first rose buds showing in the next 4/5 weeks or so if it stops raining
️quote=TitanTim post_id=2054112 time=1707640783 user_id=10087]
I think that was what Harry was picking out that EVs are better suited to business users re tax than Joe public so a bit of a farce really. Its really nothing to do with the environment from where I'm sitting.
Tim.
[/quote]
I took delivery of a PHEV Kuga on a 73 plate October last year, it’s a company car. In December my employer issued a statement saying ‘electric only’ for any new orders in 2024 :thumbsdown: . Its costs me circa £120 per month in tax at 40% with no personal contribution.
Most of my colleagues who had ‘electric only’ cars delivered last year regret it. Time to charge at home too long, costs to charge anywhere other than at home way too expensive, mileage rate claimable per mile too low and barely covers costs of charging at home. Massive real world range reduction in winter, or at any speed over about 50mph.
The Kuga does about 30 miles +/- on the battery, in winter at night with the lights on, and costs about £1 to charge up from empty on a night time EV tariff. Not exactly staggering, but a lot of the journeys I do on personal mileage are ‘local’ so almost entirely in electric mode and very low cost.
For our 3 weekly London trips I put it in ‘save electric for later’ mode and switch to ‘electric only’ just after Heston services - the electric is sufficient to get us all the way through London to St Barts and back out again in the stop/start traffic.
For work trips I can claim 27p per mile as the petrol engine is 2.5 ltr - significantly more than the actual running cost even on petrol only.
It’s not the last word in terms of build quality and refinement, but it’s not a pain In the arse either and if I need to go somewhere at the drop of a hat it doesn’t matter if the battery is flat - best of both worlds.
Do I think it’s saving the planet? no, would I spend £38k on one out of my own pocket?… definitely not. Is it a really cheap way of me running a practical, low cost, brand new car ? (even if it is a ford) - Yes.
I think that was what Harry was picking out that EVs are better suited to business users re tax than Joe public so a bit of a farce really. Its really nothing to do with the environment from where I'm sitting.
Tim.
[/quote]
I took delivery of a PHEV Kuga on a 73 plate October last year, it’s a company car. In December my employer issued a statement saying ‘electric only’ for any new orders in 2024 :thumbsdown: . Its costs me circa £120 per month in tax at 40% with no personal contribution.
Most of my colleagues who had ‘electric only’ cars delivered last year regret it. Time to charge at home too long, costs to charge anywhere other than at home way too expensive, mileage rate claimable per mile too low and barely covers costs of charging at home. Massive real world range reduction in winter, or at any speed over about 50mph.
The Kuga does about 30 miles +/- on the battery, in winter at night with the lights on, and costs about £1 to charge up from empty on a night time EV tariff. Not exactly staggering, but a lot of the journeys I do on personal mileage are ‘local’ so almost entirely in electric mode and very low cost.
For our 3 weekly London trips I put it in ‘save electric for later’ mode and switch to ‘electric only’ just after Heston services - the electric is sufficient to get us all the way through London to St Barts and back out again in the stop/start traffic.
For work trips I can claim 27p per mile as the petrol engine is 2.5 ltr - significantly more than the actual running cost even on petrol only.
It’s not the last word in terms of build quality and refinement, but it’s not a pain In the arse either and if I need to go somewhere at the drop of a hat it doesn’t matter if the battery is flat - best of both worlds.
Do I think it’s saving the planet? no, would I spend £38k on one out of my own pocket?… definitely not. Is it a really cheap way of me running a practical, low cost, brand new car ? (even if it is a ford) - Yes.
