EVs
- Thread starter TitanTim
- Start date
Spaldingski
I actually have the view that EVs are ok! I love my Z4 and the theatre it brings, but hey if I am chugging around the family on a motorway drive from A to B then would happily take an EV.
I like watching Harry but I think this video is not evidence driven and is highly opinionated to arrive at the outcome he wants for his personal situation - admit I only watched the first 10 mins. Yes customer needs are important but if you want to understand an audience, you dont give so much weight to an individual i.e. his own personal situation. Also quite a few flawed arguments, for instance claiming that the government drove people to go for big expensive EVs, which no one really did - the 2023 sales of EV shows none of these cars come even close to making an impact in sales in fact all the big sellers are cheaper small hatches. This is one example, there are lots more where he has invented something to fit his narrative instead of looking at the data.
It is a lot less of a balanced view and more of a 'heres why I went diesel and therefore it can be applied broad brush across the market' which isnt really realistic.
I like watching Harry but I think this video is not evidence driven and is highly opinionated to arrive at the outcome he wants for his personal situation - admit I only watched the first 10 mins. Yes customer needs are important but if you want to understand an audience, you dont give so much weight to an individual i.e. his own personal situation. Also quite a few flawed arguments, for instance claiming that the government drove people to go for big expensive EVs, which no one really did - the 2023 sales of EV shows none of these cars come even close to making an impact in sales in fact all the big sellers are cheaper small hatches. This is one example, there are lots more where he has invented something to fit his narrative instead of looking at the data.
It is a lot less of a balanced view and more of a 'heres why I went diesel and therefore it can be applied broad brush across the market' which isnt really realistic.
I disagree to be honest, if you watch the whole video I think the points made are very valid, especially on battery degradation and what little affect in reality going electric will have on climate change etc which to be honest is why most people buy them and thinking they are cheap to own and run.
I can see why values of electric cars are plummeting.
Tim.
I can see why values of electric cars are plummeting.
Tim.
As I say only had time for the first ten mins, and his facts weren't facts (a quick google tells you this), they were wrong and purely subjective opinion. So if he is basing his whole thing on false facts, then he is already off on the wrong footing.
Personally, I cannot see why EVs cant co exist with ICE for a while, certainly for full car (build usage scrap/recycle) lifetime they are better for the environment. On their own of course they cannot change the course of human created climate change but I am not sure anyone is saying that it will. A single mechanism isnt enough its a whole culture change, which is why things like non fossil burning energy creation is necessary, agricultural changes and farming, even our own diets etc.
My mate had one of those range rovers too, he is chopping it in for a Kia EV9 and could also come up with anecdotal arguments like Harrys but at the other end of the spectrum. The reality is though that a culture change is needed, a mindset, in how we use what resources we have on the planet.
Personally, I cannot see why EVs cant co exist with ICE for a while, certainly for full car (build usage scrap/recycle) lifetime they are better for the environment. On their own of course they cannot change the course of human created climate change but I am not sure anyone is saying that it will. A single mechanism isnt enough its a whole culture change, which is why things like non fossil burning energy creation is necessary, agricultural changes and farming, even our own diets etc.
My mate had one of those range rovers too, he is chopping it in for a Kia EV9 and could also come up with anecdotal arguments like Harrys but at the other end of the spectrum. The reality is though that a culture change is needed, a mindset, in how we use what resources we have on the planet.
Big cars generally simply require so much more energy to run. How do you remove the status of the big unnecessary lump on next doors drive. Solving that one is all part of the issue we all have with cars, ICE or EV. :wink:
And never forget the Elephant in the room. Population growth, is the ultimate problem we have to sort.
And never forget the Elephant in the room. Population growth, is the ultimate problem we have to sort.
I think big cars can be efficient, SUVs with smaller engines are around. Population is definitely an issue (which is why agriculture is also a big issue for climate change) but overall the main problem is is that people want progress but are not really willing to change behaviour if it means they have to give something up.
All this push for electric cars but I can never see any real advantages apart from inconvenience which does really outweigh the Government's push for them on environmental grounds.
I'm not the biggest of diesel fans but I can see why Harry went back to diesel. Why wouldn't you considering range and purchase cost plus retained value.
Tim.
I'm not the biggest of diesel fans but I can see why Harry went back to diesel. Why wouldn't you considering range and purchase cost plus retained value.
Tim.
Because fuel is finite, as much as climate deniers try and pick it apart, electricity production and lifetime emissions of EVs is going to be less than a diesel equivalent.
I do agree in Harrys case sure there is convenience (as mentioned above people like progress but not change) and price as well and thats a reality for many of us.
All that said, fuel pricing is only going in one direction, and it will eventually become a steep curve up for it as it becomes harder to find extract and deliver. Additionally, the increases in economies of scale of EV production will drive down EV production costs and ultimately price to customer.
I do agree in Harrys case sure there is convenience (as mentioned above people like progress but not change) and price as well and thats a reality for many of us.
All that said, fuel pricing is only going in one direction, and it will eventually become a steep curve up for it as it becomes harder to find extract and deliver. Additionally, the increases in economies of scale of EV production will drive down EV production costs and ultimately price to customer.
TitanTim said:
Again from discussions on another forum; MOST people seem to drive EVs because there are huge tax and BIK incentives from the Gov not because they are 'eco-warriors' or give two shites about climate change.
Money is more important than climate change; a simple fact that if not remedied pretty soon will end in carnage for the human race (in my opinion).
Pondrew said:TitanTim said:
Again from discussions on another forum; MOST people seem to drive EVs because there are huge tax and BIK incentives from the Gov not because they are 'eco-warriors' or give two shites about climate change.
Money is more important than climate change; a simple fact that if not remedied pretty soon will end in carnage for the human race (in my opinion).
Isn't the tax and BIK incentives more for business users than Joe public?
I think most public buyers do so more because they think they're saving the planet or led to believe so.
Tim.
This argument between EVs and ICE vehicles will not stop until people start realising that their choice of cars won't do a single thing to change the climate or save the planet. There is a lot of people getting seriously rich on the myth of man made climate change, so that is not going to change anytime soon.
If its cheaper and makes sense to you to run an EV then do so. For me the disadvantages outweigh the advantages so for me it's a no no.
If its cheaper and makes sense to you to run an EV then do so. For me the disadvantages outweigh the advantages so for me it's a no no.
There are a group of people that don't believe the man made emissions are making any difference to the planets eco system and climate. They will provide evidence but it often is presented out of context. There was an interesting piece of research done looking at the views of thousands of industry scientists, 97% agreed that man made climate change is a thing, 3% didn't. That 3% is then presented as unequivocal evidence that it isn't and everyone else are sheep for believing the 97% which is where thousands of scientists are all 'in on it'
There really isn't much point debating it, it just ends up as stated an endless back and forth of posting various links where no one changes their view.
There really isn't much point debating it, it just ends up as stated an endless back and forth of posting various links where no one changes their view.
The whole 'green' or 'eco' movement is going about things all wrong IMHO.
I believe the ONLY way we can make a serious difference to climate change is by fundamentally changing the way we live, work and everything.
That is NOT going to happen. EVs are a great example of this; by finding a way to keep the same quality of life and comforts we are used to whilst being a 'little bit' better on paper for the environment. Ain't gonna work as far as I can see.
I believe the ONLY way we can make a serious difference to climate change is by fundamentally changing the way we live, work and everything.
That is NOT going to happen. EVs are a great example of this; by finding a way to keep the same quality of life and comforts we are used to whilst being a 'little bit' better on paper for the environment. Ain't gonna work as far as I can see.
