EU referendum
- Thread starter marchantsuk
- Start date
I am in the leave camp, but it's a close call right now.
In my opinion the EU is neither one thing or the other. The whole concept only works if national powers are ceded to the EU and total harmonisation of tax, laws etc. is achieved, rather like what happened when East and West Germany reunited. The reality is that no-one in Europe regards themselves as being European, each country having its own culture and most having their own language.
For as long as the EU stays in this state of limbo the bureaucrats keep themselves in employment by enacting all sorts of solutions to problems that don't exist.
I also think that the Leave option now has rather more credibility now that it's not just Nigel Farage banging the drum.
The above all said, the next 4 months will be a fascinating exercise in the powers persuasion.
In my opinion the EU is neither one thing or the other. The whole concept only works if national powers are ceded to the EU and total harmonisation of tax, laws etc. is achieved, rather like what happened when East and West Germany reunited. The reality is that no-one in Europe regards themselves as being European, each country having its own culture and most having their own language.
For as long as the EU stays in this state of limbo the bureaucrats keep themselves in employment by enacting all sorts of solutions to problems that don't exist.
I also think that the Leave option now has rather more credibility now that it's not just Nigel Farage banging the drum.
The above all said, the next 4 months will be a fascinating exercise in the powers persuasion.
I think it breaks down to two choices, do you want to be part of The United States of Europe, because this is what it's ultimately leading too or do you want to be an Island and be independent, with free trade with Europe.
I fear the consequences of leaving but do not want to be governed by the eurocrats in Brussels
I fear the consequences of leaving but do not want to be governed by the eurocrats in Brussels
RickRob said:
My funding comes from the eu. As does my partners and many friends/colleagues that work in my field. As non eu residents we would be ineligible for it. So it would be pulled. Do be fooled in thinking it won't EU grants are very strict. So leave eu=no grant =no job
But hey I'm sure our govt both lab and conservative will fund research. They have done a cracking job at funding the HE sector so far. Removing all central funding for non science subjects and most of it for science subjects and a large portion of it for medicine/vets
I guess also we will cut the amount of foreign students as most may not be eligible to enter. That won't effect any institution at all
I wrote you a response but this forum and my cocking phone seem to not work and frequently it seems to not let me post.Taz said:
Can't be bothered to write it again.
Basically give me a good reason to stay in.
Not seen any decent arguments ether way. Just what I've experienced and I would say in is better.
Sorry I don't buy this great Britain first rhetoric bullshit. Or that imigration/terrorism etc will be any different.
Leaving is a neoliberalism ploy to make a bunch of old white rich dudes richer and the rest of us can go f**k ourselves arguing otherwise
For me it comes down to 2 main issues, why people want us to leave and I just don't see any real merit in changing for them....
Firstly migration. And in or out we ain't stopping em coming here, and to be honest I'm sick of hearing they are taking our jobs if Johnny foreigner wants to come here and work then they have to compete with us for the jobs... If you think he has taken your job it's because he is either doing it better or cheaper so you need to adapt to be competitive, this ain't communism guys.
Secondly people don't like the bellends in Brussels making our laws, now that I agree on, but the problem is I don't like the stupid bloody laws the bellends in Westminster come up with, and at least in Europe if you have a law you disagree with there is an extra level of court you can go to to appeal it.
I actually can't stand David Cameron but I voted for him because the other options were worse and he actually seems like he understands the mess of our economy and has an idea how to get out of it but he's a bloody fool for ever agreeing to this referendum in the first place (obviously that is unless we vote to stay in and he just used it to blag the concessions from Europe in which case every one will think he's a genius )
Firstly migration. And in or out we ain't stopping em coming here, and to be honest I'm sick of hearing they are taking our jobs if Johnny foreigner wants to come here and work then they have to compete with us for the jobs... If you think he has taken your job it's because he is either doing it better or cheaper so you need to adapt to be competitive, this ain't communism guys.
Secondly people don't like the bellends in Brussels making our laws, now that I agree on, but the problem is I don't like the stupid bloody laws the bellends in Westminster come up with, and at least in Europe if you have a law you disagree with there is an extra level of court you can go to to appeal it.
I actually can't stand David Cameron but I voted for him because the other options were worse and he actually seems like he understands the mess of our economy and has an idea how to get out of it but he's a bloody fool for ever agreeing to this referendum in the first place (obviously that is unless we vote to stay in and he just used it to blag the concessions from Europe in which case every one will think he's a genius )
85genius said:
So if someone wants to come to this country and be paid possibly below the minimum wage and probably have to struggle to make ends meat and live in over crowded shared houses we should all say do you know what, I want a bit of that? Don't think so. People who come here who take on low paid work are usually paid less than UK residents. These people seem not to know any better and until something is really done about it these things will not change and everyone cutting how much they will accept as pay will not change that.
85genius said:
said laws means currently anyone with a criminal record cannot be deported from the UK if they have children born in the EU. Supposedly there is 'exceptions' to this but we have seen it all before and it seems to me if the UK doesn't like the law being enforced by the EU they take it further and basically told they aren't going to change it and we must adapt. That's not working together.
85genius said:
Unfortunately this was a pledge in their manifesto so in order to not be slaughtered over not following through it had to be done. If you voted torie then technically you also voted for this wether or not you agree with it.
But June will be here before you know it and I'm sure as there campaigns progress we will get a better idea of how it might go and what things might change for the better or worse in the event of an 'out' vote.
The only thing that would sway me to vote to stay is of the SNP get majority rule again in Scotland as they will push for another referendum vote. Seen as they didn't like the outcome of the first one.
SNP don't want Britain to leave Europe but if it does then another vote will be held as it was a pillar of the United Britain campaign that if Scotland got independence they wouldn't remain a part of the EU. This fact was backed up by the EU under pressure / influence from the British government so is perfectly logical.
I would just point out at this point that although a proud Scot a united Britain is preferable to me but also a Britain in Europe.
I would just point out at this point that although a proud Scot a united Britain is preferable to me but also a Britain in Europe.
People working for less than minimum wage is not the fault of the migrants it's the employers who should be prosecuted, I'm all for everyone being paid a fair wage, and if someone has a business model that doesn't allow them to do this they shouldn't be in business.
Like I said before I didn't want to vote for Cameron but the other options were/are idiots and just because they have something in their manifesto doesn't usually mean that they will do it especially when they are so publicly against it
Like I said before I didn't want to vote for Cameron but the other options were/are idiots and just because they have something in their manifesto doesn't usually mean that they will do it especially when they are so publicly against it
Here's the timeline.....
Honest!
May 2016
SNP Elected to Holyrood with increased Majority.
June 2016
EU Referendum results
England Out
Scotland In - Daily Mail outraged
Welsh In - Daily Mail outraged
Northern Ireland In - Daily Mail outraged
UK votes to leave the EU due to English voting to leave.
August / September 2016
Cameron the pig fucker stands down
General Election and new Tory Reich elected with Bawjaws Johnson as the head pig at the trough.
Smart Uniforms issued to all Cabinet Ministers. Sponsored by Daily Mail.
All human rights removed.
All workers rights removed.
All Benefits reduced
Zero Hours Contracts become compulsory immediately.
Insurance based NHS introduced
Unions banned
National Service for everyone not working no matter the age
All foreign owned land and buildings in England seized by the state
Daily Mail funded Camps set up for the final solution of immigrants and non 5th generation English nationals.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar begins. Daily Mail outraged
December 2016
Trump wins in the US.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues.
May 2017
SNP win control of every council in Scotland. Daily Mail outraged.
Labour, Lib Dems and Tories wiped out in Scotland. Daily Mail outraged
Snap 2nd Independence Referendum announced. Daily Mail outraged.
June 2017
2nd and final Scottish Referendum.
Independence declared immediately after last result is announced. Daily Mail outraged
Scotland leaves the UK and welcomed by EU immediately. Daily Mail outraged
All Scottish MP's resign with immediate effect from Westminster.
Nicola Sturgeon asks Boris where he wants the Yank nukes parked? 5 years to get them out of Scotland and storage costs charged in line with any debt owed by Scotland. Daily Mail outraged
Banks, Oil Companies and big companies start moving head offices to Edinburgh and Aberdeen leaving skeleton staff in London.
Alex Salmond challenges David Cameron and Boris to a televised square go hosted by Ant and Dec.
Salmond wins with a one puch knockout of Boris and makes Cameron cry like a girl. Salmond now more popular with English people becomes talk show regular.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
May 2018
Welsh finally find a voice and kick out Labour for good in favour of Plaid Cymru before a referendum on leaving the remainder of the UK.
Plaid Cymru leave and join EU.
Banks and Oil Companies continue to move Head Offices to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Tax receipts from companies involved drastically reduced.
Income Tax increased to 30% in England to cover sudden drop in income.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
April 2019
Ireland unified though the Civil War continues so nothing really changed.
Last Bank and Oil Company moves head office to Scotland.
Income Tax increased to 35% in England.
In England Union Jack Tattoos become compulsory along with your unique identity number and unique barcode along with RFID tag.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
March 2020
Betty the German of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha pops her clogs.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar suspended in respect of her passing. Daily Mail outraged
Charlie passes the crown to Wullie after a drunken night out on the piss.
England has 3 days of mourning followed by three days of celebration with military enforced street parties and lots of flag waving. Hurrah!
Income Tax increased to 40% in England.
June 2022
Both Labour and Lib Dem parties outlawed.
Last two Labour and Lib Dem MP's escorted from Westminster at gunpoint and taken to Daily Mail sponsored "Camp" on the Isle of Wight.
UKIP, EDL and BNP become official opposition to the Tory Reich although can never win a majority due to boundary changes and number of seats they can contest.
Talks continue on how England can actually leave Europe as it's now been 6 years and nothing has changed. Daily Mail outraged
English people become restless and start to ask questions. Daily Mail outraged
An English Resistance is set up to help with the starving in the streets. Aided by the French Resistance they manage to smuggle out the last 4 Socialists in England.
House of Lords becomes a Care Home paid for by the English Tax Payer. Now extended to house 4000 Lords and Ladies. Smell of urine overwhelming.
Curfew introduced across England.
Income tax increased to 50% in England
Gibraltar given back to Spanish. No mention on the BBC.
Argentina blockade of Falklands begins. Daily Mail Outraged
2023
Talks on leaving Europe break down again. Daily Mail outraged
English Civil War breaks out due to the 27.3 Trillion debt inflicted by the Tory Reich, collapse of all financial systems in England, foodbanks start charging a membership fee, final doctor leaves the NHS in England to join private health hospital, riots in the streets, collapse of the housing market and income tax at 60% in England.
Chelsea play Man Utd in the final of the UK Cup. Similar to the European Cup but not in Europe so it's now like the FA Cup rerun contested by the last 8 teams sponsored by SKY sports.
New Prince born.
BBC TV Tax increased to £1000 per device.
Argentina blockade of Falklands ends with Argentina winning Falklands in game of poker. Daily Mail Outraged
2026
Talks on leaving Europe continue.
Scotland Win World Cup. Daily Mail spontaneously combusts.
2035
JE gets a date of March 2042 for the Turbo install. Just in time for summer!
Cynical? No. It's all fucked!
Honest!
May 2016
SNP Elected to Holyrood with increased Majority.
June 2016
EU Referendum results
England Out
Scotland In - Daily Mail outraged
Welsh In - Daily Mail outraged
Northern Ireland In - Daily Mail outraged
UK votes to leave the EU due to English voting to leave.
August / September 2016
Cameron the pig fucker stands down
General Election and new Tory Reich elected with Bawjaws Johnson as the head pig at the trough.
Smart Uniforms issued to all Cabinet Ministers. Sponsored by Daily Mail.
All human rights removed.
All workers rights removed.
All Benefits reduced
Zero Hours Contracts become compulsory immediately.
Insurance based NHS introduced
Unions banned
National Service for everyone not working no matter the age
All foreign owned land and buildings in England seized by the state
Daily Mail funded Camps set up for the final solution of immigrants and non 5th generation English nationals.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar begins. Daily Mail outraged
December 2016
Trump wins in the US.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues.
May 2017
SNP win control of every council in Scotland. Daily Mail outraged.
Labour, Lib Dems and Tories wiped out in Scotland. Daily Mail outraged
Snap 2nd Independence Referendum announced. Daily Mail outraged.
June 2017
2nd and final Scottish Referendum.
Independence declared immediately after last result is announced. Daily Mail outraged
Scotland leaves the UK and welcomed by EU immediately. Daily Mail outraged
All Scottish MP's resign with immediate effect from Westminster.
Nicola Sturgeon asks Boris where he wants the Yank nukes parked? 5 years to get them out of Scotland and storage costs charged in line with any debt owed by Scotland. Daily Mail outraged
Banks, Oil Companies and big companies start moving head offices to Edinburgh and Aberdeen leaving skeleton staff in London.
Alex Salmond challenges David Cameron and Boris to a televised square go hosted by Ant and Dec.
Salmond wins with a one puch knockout of Boris and makes Cameron cry like a girl. Salmond now more popular with English people becomes talk show regular.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
May 2018
Welsh finally find a voice and kick out Labour for good in favour of Plaid Cymru before a referendum on leaving the remainder of the UK.
Plaid Cymru leave and join EU.
Banks and Oil Companies continue to move Head Offices to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Tax receipts from companies involved drastically reduced.
Income Tax increased to 30% in England to cover sudden drop in income.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
April 2019
Ireland unified though the Civil War continues so nothing really changed.
Last Bank and Oil Company moves head office to Scotland.
Income Tax increased to 35% in England.
In England Union Jack Tattoos become compulsory along with your unique identity number and unique barcode along with RFID tag.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar continues. Daily Mail outraged
March 2020
Betty the German of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha pops her clogs.
Spanish blockade of Gibraltar suspended in respect of her passing. Daily Mail outraged
Charlie passes the crown to Wullie after a drunken night out on the piss.
England has 3 days of mourning followed by three days of celebration with military enforced street parties and lots of flag waving. Hurrah!
Income Tax increased to 40% in England.
June 2022
Both Labour and Lib Dem parties outlawed.
Last two Labour and Lib Dem MP's escorted from Westminster at gunpoint and taken to Daily Mail sponsored "Camp" on the Isle of Wight.
UKIP, EDL and BNP become official opposition to the Tory Reich although can never win a majority due to boundary changes and number of seats they can contest.
Talks continue on how England can actually leave Europe as it's now been 6 years and nothing has changed. Daily Mail outraged
English people become restless and start to ask questions. Daily Mail outraged
An English Resistance is set up to help with the starving in the streets. Aided by the French Resistance they manage to smuggle out the last 4 Socialists in England.
House of Lords becomes a Care Home paid for by the English Tax Payer. Now extended to house 4000 Lords and Ladies. Smell of urine overwhelming.
Curfew introduced across England.
Income tax increased to 50% in England
Gibraltar given back to Spanish. No mention on the BBC.
Argentina blockade of Falklands begins. Daily Mail Outraged
2023
Talks on leaving Europe break down again. Daily Mail outraged
English Civil War breaks out due to the 27.3 Trillion debt inflicted by the Tory Reich, collapse of all financial systems in England, foodbanks start charging a membership fee, final doctor leaves the NHS in England to join private health hospital, riots in the streets, collapse of the housing market and income tax at 60% in England.
Chelsea play Man Utd in the final of the UK Cup. Similar to the European Cup but not in Europe so it's now like the FA Cup rerun contested by the last 8 teams sponsored by SKY sports.
New Prince born.
BBC TV Tax increased to £1000 per device.
Argentina blockade of Falklands ends with Argentina winning Falklands in game of poker. Daily Mail Outraged
2026
Talks on leaving Europe continue.
Scotland Win World Cup. Daily Mail spontaneously combusts.
2035
JE gets a date of March 2042 for the Turbo install. Just in time for summer!
Cynical? No. It's all fucked!
El Pollo Diablo
Member
No need to go into such detail I guess.
Angie4m said:
Not at all.
Two years of Westminster Propaganda and threats from the very same people that promised Scotland....
No Job losses
Steel Industry OK
Banks etc will not relocate
Oil Industry safe
No threat to EU
Strongest devolved powers the world.
Now these very same people are telling us that we'd be better out of the EU or better in the EU.
They do not have a clue.
At least maybe this time they won't be phoning the pensioners and scaring the s**t out of them with threats of losing their pensions or sending up English activists to campaign.
You're only going to get 4 months of the English Propaganda, threats, smears and fears from the media.
It's not about the EU it's all about London and f**k the rest.
Will wait and see how the Fiscal Framework result is tomorrow for Scotland but I think it's safe to say last one out turn off the lights.