Engine Tapping
- Thread starter jimmybell
- Start date
Liverpool
I'm only a mile or two from you, but my car is still in Buckinghamshire at the moment and will be until I've finish fitting my huge mountain of parts! I'm hoping to have it back on the road in about a week, so let me know if you're still worried about yours at that stage....jimmybell said:
I would assume that at the Inspection II all of the valves were measured to be within tolerance, hence why you were charged for the gasket but not for any shims (they didn't need to replace any). The only way to get a clear answer would be to get a copy of the adjustment report.jimmybell said:
I would be very surprised if they did - otherwise he wouldn't have told me. They certainly wouldn't try it with me. Overall from what I've heard BMW dealerships seem to me to be a little more honest here in Oz than over in the UK. I guess that's because the premium for the new cars is so much more here...mmm-five said:
CornishRob
Senior member
So a BMW dealer possibly not doing the Ins 2 properly! No surprise there then. Decent Indies really do look more and more appealing these days!
I would rather spend £800 with a decent Indy getting Insp 2, plus extra brake fluid/coolant change, geo checked, etc etc than just the £800 for the new trainee to open the bonnet and wipe the engine cover clean!!
I would rather spend £800 with a decent Indy getting Insp 2, plus extra brake fluid/coolant change, geo checked, etc etc than just the £800 for the new trainee to open the bonnet and wipe the engine cover clean!!
StevenH72 said:
I agree completely, which is why I always take both my Zed and my E46 to the same Indy run by a chap who is both knowledgable and honest. I return, I always recommend him whenever someone is looking for a BMW specialist (although he works on other German cars too - I've seen a 100K highly modified Ruf 911 there on a couple if occasions).
Arhh christ. Help!
Looking for some help now please
Garage has called back and run through everything they can think of - have narrowed it down to either the VANOS unit, or the timing chain? Bad times.
I'm now out of my depth, but it sounds like the VANOS would be ~£1500 + labour, or the timing chain = £100 chain and a significant amount of labour work to remove engine top/bottom/frontend (well over a grand up to £2k). Apparently they did a vibration test to confirm it's the front end of the engine.
Would LOVE some advice at this point, on a few points:
1. Costs - i know nothing of any of them at that low level engine work, can anyone validate these estimates?
2. The garage - the guy seems genuine, knows his stuff, but for this price i'd like to double check what he's talking about?
3. Other options and general garage advice?
I've asked them to email me some prices and they've also offered to flip out my VANOS for a spare to rule that out. Any thoughts on this too?
I think bill so far (exhaust valve shimming) is around £350 at this point.
Anything responses much appreciated, a bit lost for what to do now.
Looking for some help now please
Garage has called back and run through everything they can think of - have narrowed it down to either the VANOS unit, or the timing chain? Bad times.I'm now out of my depth, but it sounds like the VANOS would be ~£1500 + labour, or the timing chain = £100 chain and a significant amount of labour work to remove engine top/bottom/frontend (well over a grand up to £2k). Apparently they did a vibration test to confirm it's the front end of the engine.
Would LOVE some advice at this point, on a few points:
1. Costs - i know nothing of any of them at that low level engine work, can anyone validate these estimates?
2. The garage - the guy seems genuine, knows his stuff, but for this price i'd like to double check what he's talking about?
3. Other options and general garage advice?
I've asked them to email me some prices and they've also offered to flip out my VANOS for a spare to rule that out. Any thoughts on this too?
I think bill so far (exhaust valve shimming) is around £350 at this point.
Anything responses much appreciated, a bit lost for what to do now.
Can't help with the accuracy of the costs, but there are VANOS rebuild/repair kits available for the S54.
It looks like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - as what you'll save in labour on one will be lost in parts, and vice versa.
Can't recommend any of them personally as mine was replaced - along with the engine - under AUC warranty.
Here's one of the first I found - Mr Vanos - but I know Dr Vanos and Beisan do something similar.
I'd take advantage of the offer to switch VANOS units, as you don't want to rebuild/buy another just to find the noise is still there.
It looks like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - as what you'll save in labour on one will be lost in parts, and vice versa.
Can't recommend any of them personally as mine was replaced - along with the engine - under AUC warranty.
Here's one of the first I found - Mr Vanos - but I know Dr Vanos and Beisan do something similar.
I'd take advantage of the offer to switch VANOS units, as you don't want to rebuild/buy another just to find the noise is still there.
Yep - the problem being confirming diagnosis i guess.
Apparently (from another reputable garage) swapping the VANOS is quite involved (and the vanos unit itself is unlikely to be the problem, more likely vanos related parts), and timing chain is also unlikely (should never need to be done), but it could be a timing related issue.
Apparently (from another reputable garage) swapping the VANOS is quite involved (and the vanos unit itself is unlikely to be the problem, more likely vanos related parts), and timing chain is also unlikely (should never need to be done), but it could be a timing related issue.
BMWZ4MC said:Sorry to hear of your woes. If you need an honest and expert second opinion contact Phil Crouch at CPC Performance Engineering. I really can't recommend him strongly enough
Thanks - i may do so. I've briefly chatted with Stuart @ Munich Legends too - seems a nice guy and knowledgeable, will see what they come back with.
George @ Technosport has the car currently, he knows his stuff but seems to be struggling to identify the cause (he's down to swapping out VANOS or opening up to investigate timing chain) - i'm not sure what other options i have, but VANOS swap = £360 sadly, just to FIND OUT if it's the problem.
CornishRob
Senior member
I know this probably won't help as he's in Southampton, but Sean at Iridium Engineering is really good and is meant to be really good at diagnostic and fault finding. Maybe give him a shout or email and see what he say or if he can offer any suggestions. I know when he had my car in a few weeks ago, he performed a VANOS test with the computer. Maybe it could help?
I would be a bit apprehensive to start swapping parts out without a clue to the problem. Sounds a bit like a dealer solution.
I would be a bit apprehensive to start swapping parts out without a clue to the problem. Sounds a bit like a dealer solution.
jimmybell said:daz05 said:
verrrryyyy scary. Engine replacement must be in the ~£manymany thousands.
It really doesn't sound that bad - not that there's a vid of that problem to compare - but if they can't identify it... i've no idea. Not a happy bunny today.
That sounds like this.
http://youtu.be/y_lY8AdfNVs
From doing some research about this issue some time ago i found there are several things that can cause tapping over and above the normal vanos noise. Valve adjustment and injector noise aside here are some other things worth checking before you go for a full strip down.
Run the car briefly without the aux belt attached, if the noise goes away then you know it's related to the auxiliaries. I had a knackered water pump on my old golf and it was an engine speed related tapping much like a sticky tappet/out of spec valve shim.
The intake cam bolts are known to work loose on some of the s54 engines and if they all shear you'll be looking at a hefty sum to fix. Sadly, to fully diagnose this you need to remove the vanos unit but I've seen somewhere that a rough check can be made by grabbing the intake cam sprocket and seeing if there is any back and forth movement. It's not conclusive but if there is movement then at least it gives you good reason to check it out. Saying that, this is more common on pre 06/7 s54's thanks to a lack of loctite on the assembly line but you never know.
Whilst you're checking the intake side you should also check the exhaust cam vanos hub. This is another weakness of the engine and there are 2 small tabs that fit into a disc that have been known to break off. Again, to replace this the vanos must come off but you can just abut see one of the tabs at any one time without stripping it down. Look for either a missing tab or any signs of fatigue (which in itself won't necessarily cause noise but is worth looking at) then turn the engine and check the other.
Aside from that I've read of a couple of people who experienced this kind of noise only to later diagnose it as a failing head gasket. As far as I can remember they didn't notice any oil/water contamination either so perhaps a compression test might be worthwhile.
I would assume that your mechanic has already checked the cam lobes for excessive wear that may point to an oil circulation problem but I thought it worth mentioning.
As for the timing chain, it's possible the tensioner could need replacing or perhaps one of the guides has weakened but I'd think it unlikely that the chain itself is at fault as they normally last a long time before they're too stretched. If the vanos comes off I think you can do the upper guide (I've read of one of these failing but there might have been other contributing factors) and I believe the tensioner is a simple, quick job.
I can't think of anything else right now but perhaps there is something useful in my drawn out ramblings. FWIW I'd get the simple things out the way with and then look at the vanos/bolts as it seems to be the most common issue we have with these engines. Good luck and I hope it's something simple and cheap.
Run the car briefly without the aux belt attached, if the noise goes away then you know it's related to the auxiliaries. I had a knackered water pump on my old golf and it was an engine speed related tapping much like a sticky tappet/out of spec valve shim.
The intake cam bolts are known to work loose on some of the s54 engines and if they all shear you'll be looking at a hefty sum to fix. Sadly, to fully diagnose this you need to remove the vanos unit but I've seen somewhere that a rough check can be made by grabbing the intake cam sprocket and seeing if there is any back and forth movement. It's not conclusive but if there is movement then at least it gives you good reason to check it out. Saying that, this is more common on pre 06/7 s54's thanks to a lack of loctite on the assembly line but you never know.
Whilst you're checking the intake side you should also check the exhaust cam vanos hub. This is another weakness of the engine and there are 2 small tabs that fit into a disc that have been known to break off. Again, to replace this the vanos must come off but you can just abut see one of the tabs at any one time without stripping it down. Look for either a missing tab or any signs of fatigue (which in itself won't necessarily cause noise but is worth looking at) then turn the engine and check the other.
Aside from that I've read of a couple of people who experienced this kind of noise only to later diagnose it as a failing head gasket. As far as I can remember they didn't notice any oil/water contamination either so perhaps a compression test might be worthwhile.
I would assume that your mechanic has already checked the cam lobes for excessive wear that may point to an oil circulation problem but I thought it worth mentioning.
As for the timing chain, it's possible the tensioner could need replacing or perhaps one of the guides has weakened but I'd think it unlikely that the chain itself is at fault as they normally last a long time before they're too stretched. If the vanos comes off I think you can do the upper guide (I've read of one of these failing but there might have been other contributing factors) and I believe the tensioner is a simple, quick job.
I can't think of anything else right now but perhaps there is something useful in my drawn out ramblings. FWIW I'd get the simple things out the way with and then look at the vanos/bolts as it seems to be the most common issue we have with these engines. Good luck and I hope it's something simple and cheap.