Engine Tapping

J

jimmybell

Veteran
 SW London
Yep - another engine tapping/noise thread!

So - i've had the car for almost a year, it's been running pretty happily without issue. I'm also starting to learn how the engine behaves, it's noises, clunks, rattles and habits. I've now covered almost ~9k miles, the car total around 37k. The car has been tracked in the past, but nothing excessively that i'm aware of. So i guess i'm trying to say "i know it makes noises, but i really haven't noticed this one before".

This weekend whilst road trippin' out to the cotswolds, both me and SWMBO noticed engine tapping, similar to what i remember engine tappets to sound like, but maybe not as violent. It's loud enough to be noticeable in the background, but not loud enough to be heard over strong wind, or road noise at ~90mph (or strong acceleration for that matter).

A quick bonnet lift and investigation in Bicester Village carpark brought me to conclude it was something in or around the engine block, is not related to steering, gearbox or clutch, but does speed up directly with engine revs, but at a a slower pace. I wondered if it was tappets, but a few videos on youtube seem to suggest that would be very loud and super obvious; so maybe it's a belt (sounds like the pace of a belt revolution?) - who knows, i'm a muppet with regards to engine knowledge beyond basics. It doesn't fade as the engine warms up (i know it's a noisy disconcerting thing when cold!).

Obviously a quick google whilst SWMBO tries on shoes she can't afford returns the inevitable dreaded vanos threads, and the bearing discussion http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54551&hilit=tapping+noise&start=60 i seem to remember, but again it sounds like bearing failure (is there a stage between 'all good' and 'failed'?) would be immediately evident - and this really doesn't seem that severe. I have to say it didn't worry me enough to pull over and call the AA, so i'm hoping it's nothing serious - but i want to be safe rather than sorry.

Does anyone have any suggestions as my first action to take? Or what it may be? I'm contemplating whipping it into somewhere like http://www.technosport.co.uk/ for their opinion.


The rain stopped - some vids attached. The tapping is much less obvious on my PC speakers than on the iphone.. weird. Headphones helped. I think the source is pretty clear on the engine bay vid. In fact with any background noise at all the top video is useless, you can hear it best when i let off after revving.

[youtube]31WrmnVZ9XA[/youtube]
[youtube]gihudtqlrLE[/youtube]
 
Could be a stuck Hydrauic Valve Adjuster, it sounds just like a loose tappet. When I was looking I was warned about it. Not sure if it affects the ///M or not though? If you google BMW stuck HVA you will have something to compare it to.
 
No hydraulic valve adjusters in the S54 but my 'tappiness' was massively reduced by a full valve clearance adjustment as part of inspection 2 service :) little spacer pucks are put in to make sure the valves open and shut to the right gap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I was very surprised by the tapping noises from my 3.0si - sounds like the keys being firmly hit on the laptop I'm using.

Thought it might be tappet noises but having it checked by my mechanic of 30 years he tells me it's the noise of the injectors.

:driving: :thumbsup:
 
You can use a dowel as a stethoscope to determine if the noise is coming from the valve gear or the VANOS if you're in doubt.
Occasionally the S54 can suffer from oil starvation at the top of the engine resulting in severe and rapid wear of the cam lobes and followers. There are videos of this effecting the E46 M3 to be found on YouTube. If the character of the engine noise has rapidly changed and it's markedly more tappety than previously, it is worth having it reshimmed and the cams inspected. Check the water and oil levels and the oil temperature when hot.
I'm in SW London too and I use CPC Performance Engineering in Amersham (http://cpcpe.com) for my ///M and my 320d. Phil is a decent guy and extremely knowledgable :thumbsup:
 
Interesting - thanks for the recommendation - will check CPC out!

Any idea how getting the cam's inspected (and probably shimmed whilst it's there) will dent the bank?


EDIT: added a few vids in the OP.
 
jimmybell said:
Interesting - thanks for the recommendation - will check CPC out!
Any idea how getting the cam's inspected (and probably shimmed whilst it's there) will dent the bank?
EDIT: added a few vids in the OP.
Click to expand...

I'd have thought a dealer would do between £200-300. There are some gaskets to be replaced. It is done as part of Inspection II at least. I had mine done/checked on Insp I
 
jimmybell said:
Any idea how getting the cam's inspected (and probably shimmed whilst it's there) will dent the bank?
Click to expand...
BMW have it as a 3 hour 'book time' - so at dealer rates about £300-£450 just for the labour. Gaskets, shims, et al will be another £100.

Now you see why the I1 is £500 more expensive than an oil service :P

An independent should be half of that, if not then you've got to ask why it's taking them twice as long (considering their labour rate will likely be less than 50% of the dealer's).
 
Good point. Would be interested to know if anyone believes my video suggests this problem (assuming you can turn it up loud enough or have audiophile headphones to actually hear the noise!) is what i have?
 
Does sound like shims. Get the valve clearance checked at the same time especially if its been tracked. Nothing to worry but if left unattended too long you get excessive fuel consumption and it will increase cam wear.
 
Thanks Chawen, much appreciated. Any other comments welcome - i'm pretty in the dark here.

I'd happily take it to an Indy to be inspected/listened to - and get them to do the work, but thinking about it - should this have been done in my Insp II in Jan 2013 at a BMW Main dealer? The car has primarily been driven by me since then, so nothing excessive.

Is it worth following up with them? Or maybe getting a report from Indy and going to BMW with some evidence?

Cheers folks.
JB
 
Had a quick chat with George @ technosport - seemed a really nice bloke, definitely versed in all things S54 so i'll be dropping it there for works one day this week.

Expected cost ~£300 assuming valve shimming is the issue.

Looking at my service history - January 2013 i had '1 profile gasket' and '6 plug gaskets' billed on my Insp2 - not sure if this is related to the shims? :s
 
The second video is unavailable at the moment. The first sounds a like the videos I've seen of worn cam lobes/followers in E46 M3s.... But it could just need re-shimming - videos can be very deceptive! I'll check again later to see if the other video loads.

Edit: here's a link to a relevant thread:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=396908

I can't play the video in the M3 thread on my phone, but YouTube has loads of video of noisy S54 valve gear
 
BMWZ4MC said:
The second video is unavailable at the moment. The first sounds a like the videos I've seen of worn cam lobes/followers in E46 M3s.... But it could just need re-shimming - videos can be very deceptive! I'll check again later to see if the other video loads.

Edit: here's a link to a relevant thread:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=396908

I can't play the video in the M3 thread on my phone, but YouTube has loads of video of noisy S54 valve gear
Click to expand...

What sort of cost would you be looking at with worn lobes?
 
Thanks for the post - i think? This is getting scary heh. I'd assume it would be some replacement parts on top of the existing shimming cost, found some for £30 each assuming they're correct.

I'll print some of this off for the garage to consider, though he seemed to know his stuff.
 
Looks like valve shims should be done as part of Insp1 (and therefore Insp2), which would mean they're expected to be checked every 30k miles - I'm surprised they've failed 9k after the last inspection.

Does anyone think BMW have any responsibility here if it turns out to be this? Should i be taking it to them first? I don't have much main dealer experience, i try to avoid them as they never seem as transparent with works typically.
 
If you have the copy of the invoice for the inspection, you may also have copy of the 'valve clearance report'.

However, in my experience, you don't get it if you don't ask for it, and even then they sometimes 'forget'.

However, if you can see anything on the invoice that looks like valve shims (listed as shim, adjustment plate or valve washer) at about £2-£5 each, you can assume that it's been done.

If you can't see something like that, then here's a list of part numbers for the different sized shims...11347832271 to 11347832290; 11347833 570; 11347833571

The problem with trying to get BMW to do anything under warranty/goodwill, will be that they'd have to admit there's a problem/damage before they'd take it any further. They'd be unlikely to replace anything 'just in case' at their cost - although will happily replace anything & everything if you're offering to pay.
 
Thanks mmm-five - doesn't look like any mention of shims, only 1 'profile gskt', 6 'plug gskts' and two "SEALING RIN" - not much else mentioned engine related.

I guess they would of checked it, found no problems and therefore no mention of parts etc.

Oh well - booked in for technosport tomorrow, i'll ask them to note down the measurements. The guys there seem pretty knowledgeable, but wouldn't of expected this problem so early after Insp2.
 
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