Engine Tapping

Yeah sorry - a bit caught up at work with redundancy issues (hence the delay in repair related activities).

Im confident you can assess the wear reasonably well in situ - just remove the cover - however its easier to see when they're clean and off. the difference isnt HUGE but when comparing old vs new its pretty obvious how it could be important when you're talking about the micron scale that shimming is done.

Got a bag of oily followers - i'll pick out some good examples to share!
 
Ok a few snaps of the guilty parts!

ta7uta2u.jpg


All of them are through the hardened coating, some are OK, a couple are starting to go and one or two are pretty worn.

I took the decision to take no chances and get the entire internals checked, replace all followers and re-shim.

2yvynahu.jpg

Pretty sure this is the worst offender, when we're talking about micron scale adjustments something this obvious is pretty severe. I can only really attribute all of this to a poorly conducted shimming by BMW as part of my Inspection II.

4y7azary.jpg

Turns out it makes a handy reminder by way of being the worlds most expensive key ring:

danuzuvy.jpg
 
I'd be taking this evidence back to BMW to complain about the standard of the Insp II, at least to a) see what they say and b) hopefully make them more attentive during future Inspections.
 
Yeah ive already written it up. I got them to admit it was highly unlikely and probably the result of my assumptions above at another dealer - i'll take that to BMW.
 
gwatson said:
Glad you got it all sorted :thumbsup:

I assume we're speaking of a four figure invoice? :cry: :cry:
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Yeah, i could of kept it down if i just replaced only the really bad ones but i used it as an opportunity to get a full engine refresh and onceover, and at that point i want everything perfect so no expense spared - even did an oil and coolant change :)

Needless to say im over it already and loving the car this weekend :D Just tried my first tank of non-vpower! momentum 99 isnt so bad! im such a fuel snob.

Again - thanks for everyones advice/support. Much appreciated, this forum is awesome.
 
Thanks for posting that up jimmy :thumbsup: can't have been cheap given the cost of the followers but well worth it for peace of mind. I'm guessing no unusual wear was noticed on the cams? Would've be a great excuse for something a little fruitier, though I can't imagine the cost being anywhere close to reasonable :lol:

Having had a further look at valve adjustment pics i reckon these should be visible once the follower is slid away from the lobe/shim so should mean that they are relatively easy to check.
 
Yep nothing else wrong - so pretty sure that would be a likely consequence of bad / lack of shimming, which has only ever been done by BMW main dealers in the past. Shame people value FBMWSH in logbooks so much - you really have no idea what goes on behind the service doors in big dealers. I asked Phil @ CPC PE for his rundown of the car overall aside from this and his response was something like "a great low miler, well looked after", so i'm happy otherwise. We'll see what BMW say - though i doubt they'll entertain my gripes.

I suspect it would be easy to check the followers, however with 24 to check and in anything other than under bright light - you could fail to notice. Being a bit of an engine tapping nerd now with all this cam/follower/shimming chat, i'm happy to help anyone who has any questions.
 
jimmybell said:
Yep nothing else wrong - so pretty sure that would be a likely consequence of bad / lack of shimming, which has only ever been done by BMW main dealers in the past. Shame people value FBMWSH in logbooks so much - you really have no idea what goes on behind the service doors in big dealers. I asked Phil @ CPC PE for his rundown of the car overall aside from this and his response was something like "a great low miler, well looked after", so i'm happy otherwise. We'll see what BMW say - though i doubt they'll entertain my gripes.

I suspect it would be easy to check the followers, however with 24 to check and in anything other than under bright light - you could notice. Being a bit of an engine tapping nerd now with all this cam/follower/shimming chat, i'm happy to help anyone who has any questions.
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Yes, these engines need engineers, not technicians with a laptop!!
 
I've noticed a tapping sound from mine on deceleration and coasting, so today I popped the bonnet and took a video:

http://youtu.be/uj_Gi1ECEbk

It's actually horrificly overpowering on mic, this doesn't sound healthy at all :cry:

Ironically it's recently been "inspected" and had a "health check" done by the BMW ///M specialist in my local dealer who returned a complete bill of health all round. So that's also confusing me.
 
The S54 sounds fairly tappety when it's healthy. However, if you think the light tappety sound is becoming more prominent with a hard edge to it and it is localised to the valve gear at the top of the engine, I would find a competent mechanic experienced with the S54 and ask them to listen. They will be able to remove the cam cover and inspect the cams and followers. It may need reshimming (easy and cheap) or it could be that the case hardening has worn through on one or more cam lobes as a result of worn followers (not easy or cheap to fix as it means two new cams and 24 followers). Wear of cams and followers is not a terribly uncommon problem with the E46 M3, usually due to inadequate oil supply to the head rather than poor maintenance or badly adjusted clearances at Inspection services. The garage will probably tell you it's normal or that the VANOS is shot depending how prominent the sound has become. If they do, take a second opinion elsewhere and be sure they inspect the cams before you part with any money for a new VANOS as this rarely fails with the iteration of the S54 used in the Z4M.
Lastly, I would seek a word-of-mouth recommendation from either this forum or an E46 forum for a good indy local to you as BMW main dealer mechanics will be less experienced with our engine now as it has not been used in a new car for five or more years.
 
Aye I've sent the video over to an indie who is held in quite high regard locally, so I'm awaiting his opinion. The guy at the dealer has been on the M team since 2002 so he'd been there through the launch of these engines, but who knows if it was actually him who lifted the bonnet and did the inspection. I dunno. Hopefully it's nothing but given what's been documented in this thread, I need to be sure.
 
It's likely that the followers wear primarily and the cams are only damaged once the followers have lost their case hardening. As such, (if this is the problem) the sooner it is addressed the less likely it is that you will need new cams as well as followers. Good luck and please post back here once you have a diagnosis!

Edit - haven't you only just bought the car? If you bought it within the last six months and from a garage, then they have some responsibility for the problem even if it wasn't evident at the time of purchase.
 
ncrossy1980 said:
I've noticed a tapping sound from mine on deceleration and coasting, so today I popped the bonnet and took a video:

http://youtu.be/uj_Gi1ECEbk

It's actually horrificly overpowering on mic, this doesn't sound healthy at all :cry:

Ironically it's recently been "inspected" and had a "health check" done by the BMW ///M specialist in my local dealer who returned a complete bill of health all round. So that's also confusing me.
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Listened on my IPhone and sounds completely normal to me. I guess it's normal to get a bit paranoid about this stuff when it's posted but as said the S54 is a noisy and quite old fashioned mechanical engine so it's always gonna be a lot noiser than by modern standards. There's a list of other stuff you probably would benefit from having done at your mileage but it can turn into a money pit when it's not totally necassry, although I don't agree with the comment on the VANOS not failing. The seals do fail, along with other parts of it so it's not full proof on the S54 although it is better than the E36 M3 and unlikely to fail catastrophically. Better to get uprated parts than a new VANOS but that's another story ;)
 
When I took the car on I was prepared for the prospect of spending a lot on it, not to the point where I could have put that extra cash towards a 911! But I'm more than happy to keep this thing slick where needed. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a novice in this area though so I'm learning every day from you guys re: what these cars need :thumbsup:
 
Mine is doing this quite prominently now, I've stopped driving it and am braving myself for a large bill to sort as the head needs to come off change them apparently.

I'll have a new head gasket and beisan the vanos at the same time, farking cars. :cry:
 
AndyBeech said:
Listened on my IPhone and sounds completely normal to me. I guess it's normal to get a bit paranoid about this stuff when it's posted but as said the S54 is a noisy and quite old fashioned mechanical engine so it's always gonna be a lot noiser than by modern standards. There's a list of other stuff you probably would benefit from having done at your mileage but it can turn into a money pit when it's not totally necassry, although I don't agree with the comment on the VANOS not failing. The seals do fail, along with other parts of it so it's not full proof on the S54 although it is better than the E36 M3 and unlikely to fail catastrophically. Better to get uprated parts than a new VANOS but that's another story ;)
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This. I'd agree and say that doesn't sound too abnormal, I think your mic is making it sound worse, of course it's difficult to tell. They are quite noisy rattly engines at idle, designed that way. Have a listen to one of their V10s at idle and you'd swear it was broken!
Get the cam cover off if you need some piece of mind and look at them and the followers.
 
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