Engine rattle on cold start

[enuff_zed]

I assume the oil is the correct level too?

Morning. Am going to check that this weekend. If it needs topping up, what’s the recommended oil to use on these ones?

Thanks.

Well ideally you would match whatever was put in last time, but a small top up will be fine.
Lots of opinions. I use Fuch Titan 5W40 in ours.
Have a read of this: https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116569

 

[poortomsacold]

I assume the oil is the correct level too?

Morning. Am going to check that this weekend. If it needs topping up, what’s the recommended oil to use on these ones?

Thanks.

Well ideally you would match whatever was put in last time, but a small top up will be fine.
Lots of opinions. I use Fuch Titan 5W40 in ours.
Have a read of this: https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116569

Thanks for that. Just started her up and the rattle is back, as well as a tapping (which may have been there before - I am probably listening out more than before). Although there seems to be conflicting info as to when to check the oil, the manual says at normal running temp so I'll take her out later and see how it reads.

 

[enuff_zed]

Morning. Am going to check that this weekend. If it needs topping up, what’s the recommended oil to use on these ones?

Thanks.

Well ideally you would match whatever was put in last time, but a small top up will be fine.
Lots of opinions. I use Fuch Titan 5W40 in ours.
Have a read of this: https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116569

Thanks for that. Just started her up and the rattle is back, as well as a tapping (which may have been there before - I am probably listening out more than before). Although there seems to be conflicting info as to when to check the oil, the manual says at normal running temp so I'll take her out later and see how it reads.

Are you sure the rattle is from the front?
Not the DISA valve on the left side?
Ideally you need to get someone else to start it while you listen under the bonnet.

 

[poortomsacold]

Well ideally you would match whatever was put in last time, but a small top up will be fine.
Lots of opinions. I use Fuch Titan 5W40 in ours.
Have a read of this: https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116569

Thanks for that. Just started her up and the rattle is back, as well as a tapping (which may have been there before - I am probably listening out more than before). Although there seems to be conflicting info as to when to check the oil, the manual says at normal running temp so I'll take her out later and see how it reads.

Are you sure the rattle is from the front?
Not the DISA valve on the left side?
Ideally you need to get someone else to start it while you listen under the bonnet.

It's funny you mention that but after I'd started it I did open the bonnet and put my head to the engine cover and it did sound as though the noise was coming from the left hand side - the section with the BMW logo on it. I did video it but would have to work out how to post videos on here!

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, well I'm not certain and not doom-mongering, but definitely check out the DISA valve.
Lots of info on here about it.
Simple to remove. Pop the inlet pipe off for access to the lower screw. Then it's just two torx screws, top and bottom, and an electrical plug.
Pull it out and check the flap. It is only located by two short plastic pins. These wear over time, causing the flap to rattle. Eventually the whole thing lets go and heads for the inlet valves. For 20 minutes of your time it could potentially save you a big bill.

 

[poortomsacold]

OK, well I'm not certain and not doom-mongering, but definitely check out the DISA valve.
Lots of info on here about it.
Simple to remove. Pop the inlet pipe off for access to the lower screw. Then it's just two torx screws, top and bottom, and an electrical plug.
Pull it out and check the flap. It is only located by two short plastic pins. These wear over time, causing the flap to rattle. Eventually the whole thing lets go and heads for the inlet valves. For 20 minutes of your time it could potentially save you a big bill.

Thanks enuff-zed - I'll remove and inspect it shortly, and report back!

 

[poortomsacold]

OK, well I'm not certain and not doom-mongering, but definitely check out the DISA valve.
Lots of info on here about it.
Simple to remove. Pop the inlet pipe off for access to the lower screw. Then it's just two torx screws, top and bottom, and an electrical plug.
Pull it out and check the flap. It is only located by two short plastic pins. These wear over time, causing the flap to rattle. Eventually the whole thing lets go and heads for the inlet valves. For 20 minutes of your time it could potentially save you a big bill.

Thanks enuff-zed - I'll remove and inspect it shortly, and report back!

Right DISA valve looks to be in good order - no rattles or looseness so that's one thing ruled out. Checked oil and whilst the car is cold it's on the right level - certainly not low.

And I should have clarified that when looking at the car front on, the rattle seems to be from the left hand side of the engine from what I can tell, so the driver side.

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, well I'm not certain and not doom-mongering, but definitely check out the DISA valve.
Lots of info on here about it.
Simple to remove. Pop the inlet pipe off for access to the lower screw. Then it's just two torx screws, top and bottom, and an electrical plug.
Pull it out and check the flap. It is only located by two short plastic pins. These wear over time, causing the flap to rattle. Eventually the whole thing lets go and heads for the inlet valves. For 20 minutes of your time it could potentially save you a big bill.

Thanks enuff-zed - I'll remove and inspect it shortly, and report back!

Right DISA valve looks to be in good order - no rattles or looseness so that's one thing ruled out. Checked oil and whilst the car is cold it's on the right level - certainly not low.

And I should have clarified that when looking at the car front on, the rattle seems to be from the left hand side of the engine from what I can tell, so the driver side.

Ah the old my left, your right scenario! :rofl:
Good to know the disa is ok though.
Not something as simple as the heat shield is it? The bolts rot through and leave it flapping about.

 

[poortomsacold]

Thanks enuff-zed - I'll remove and inspect it shortly, and report back!

Right DISA valve looks to be in good order - no rattles or looseness so that's one thing ruled out. Checked oil and whilst the car is cold it's on the right level - certainly not low.

And I should have clarified that when looking at the car front on, the rattle seems to be from the left hand side of the engine from what I can tell, so the driver side.

Ah the old my left, your right scenario! :rofl:
Good to know the disa is ok though.
Not something as simple as the heat shield is it? The bolts rot through and leave it flapping about.

Okay so a quick inspection of the heat shield and that seems solid and not rattling. Have listened again and unless the rattle is travelling up from the lower regions of the engine, I would say the rattle is coming from within the area I have circled in red.

 

[enuff_zed]

Bingo!
Vanos. It means that when you get an overhaul kit for it you need to get one that includes the rattle rings.
It does mean that you can relax a little though as apart from losing a bit of torque (which was probably gone long before you got it) there is no immediate rush to save your engine.

https://x8r.co.uk/for-bmw-double-twin-dual-vanos-seals-repair-set-kit-m52-m54-m56-with-gaskets.html

 

[poortomsacold]

Bingo!
Vanos. It means that when you get an overhaul kit for it you need to get one that includes the rattle rings.
It does mean that you can relax a little though as apart from losing a bit of torque (which was probably gone long before you got it) there is no immediate rush to save your engine.

https://x8r.co.uk/for-bmw-double-twin-dual-vanos-seals-repair-set-kit-m52-m54-m56-with-gaskets.html

Exactly as you suspected! Thanks again for all of your help so far. This forum is brilliant!

 

[enuff_zed]

Bingo!
Vanos. It means that when you get an overhaul kit for it you need to get one that includes the rattle rings.
It does mean that you can relax a little though as apart from losing a bit of torque (which was probably gone long before you got it) there is no immediate rush to save your engine.

https://x8r.co.uk/for-bmw-double-twin-dual-vanos-seals-repair-set-kit-m52-m54-m56-with-gaskets.html

Exactly as you suspected! Thanks again for all of your help so far. This forum is brilliant!

To be fair, it wasn't just me though.

 

[poortomsacold]

Bingo!
Vanos. It means that when you get an overhaul kit for it you need to get one that includes the rattle rings.
It does mean that you can relax a little though as apart from losing a bit of torque (which was probably gone long before you got it) there is no immediate rush to save your engine.

https://x8r.co.uk/for-bmw-double-twin-dual-vanos-seals-repair-set-kit-m52-m54-m56-with-gaskets.html

Exactly as you suspected! Thanks again for all of your help so far. This forum is brilliant!

To be fair, it wasn't just me though.

No there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on this forum. Am hoping that once the seals are changed the rare hesitation I have will go. Then at some stage to look into the clunk I sometimes get from the rear end when I change gears without compensating sufficiently well with the accelerator - another issue that seems quite common....it never ends!

 

[enuff_zed]

The whole point of the vanos system is to adjust the angle between the cams, using oil pressure, directed by solenoids and shuttle valves, to ensure the optimum timing at all engine speeds.
When the seals fail the oil sneaks past instead of acting to adjust the cam timing.
I have a 3.0i that I am (very) slowly doing up. When I connect my Autophix 5900 code reader to it I can see real time feedback on several systems, including the cam angles. At the moment, whatever engine speed I try, the angles stay exactly the same. So I know this one needs the vanos seals sorted to. Luckily it is quiet though, so I may get away with the cheaper kit.
If it encourages you at all, 3 years go I bought my wife an E85 2.5i Auto as a Valentine's present. Prior to that I had no knowledge of these cars at all. So it will come to you. Every job you do will add to your knowledge.

 

[patriot66]

Exactly as you suspected! Thanks again for all of your help so far. This forum is brilliant!

To be fair, it wasn't just me though.

No there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on this forum. Am hoping that once the seals are changed the rare hesitation I have will go. Then at some stage to look into the clunk I sometimes get from the rear end when I change gears without compensating sufficiently well with the accelerator - another issue that seems quite common....it never ends!

It does end...eventually Twenty year old cars. Once you replace/repair all the original components that can give problems due to age/decomposition/heat cycles etc then life becomes much easier.
By the way that clunk from the rear end driveline will more than likely be the prop-shaft splines into the diff requiring some grease Drop the exhaust, drop the prop-shaft, apply correct grease...sorted. Another job you can tick off the list

 

[poortomsacold]

To be fair, it wasn't just me though.

No there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on this forum. Am hoping that once the seals are changed the rare hesitation I have will go. Then at some stage to look into the clunk I sometimes get from the rear end when I change gears without compensating sufficiently well with the accelerator - another issue that seems quite common....it never ends!

It does end...eventually Twenty year old cars. Once you replace/repair all the original components that can give problems due to age/decomposition/heat cycles etc then life becomes much easier.
By the way that clunk from the rear end driveline will more than likely be the prop-shaft splines into the diff requiring some grease Drop the exhaust, drop the prop-shaft, apply correct grease...sorted. Another job you can tick off the list

That’s very handy to know - will add that to the to do list! I’ll get there in the end I’m sure!

 

[poortomsacold]

The whole point of the vanos system is to adjust the angle between the cams, using oil pressure, directed by solenoids and shuttle valves, to ensure the optimum timing at all engine speeds.
When the seals fail the oil sneaks past instead of acting to adjust the cam timing.
I have a 3.0i that I am (very) slowly doing up. When I connect my Autophix 5900 code reader to it I can see real time feedback on several systems, including the cam angles. At the moment, whatever engine speed I try, the angles stay exactly the same. So I know this one needs the vanos seals sorted to. Luckily it is quiet though, so I may get away with the cheaper kit.
If it encourages you at all, 3 years go I bought my wife an E85 2.5i Auto as a Valentine's present. Prior to that I had no knowledge of these cars at all. So it will come to you. Every job you do will add to your knowledge.

That’s reassuring. A few weeks ago I’d not really done any work on a car, so have done more than ever before. Don’t think I’d ever heard of a vanos or disa valve but today took the latter out to inspect it - never thought I’d tinker with parts of the engine of a Z4 I must say. It’s good to learn!

 

[poortomsacold]

So after just over a week of noticing the rattle it has gotten somewhat worse - it sounded pretty noisy when starting the car today. When the temperature was up to normal the rattle cannot really be heard when in neutral/idle, but can be heard when accelerating. Does this all sound pretty standard for a vanos that needs a rebuild? Is there any risk in keeping driving it?

Thanks!

 

[enuff_zed]

So after just over a week of noticing the rattle it has gotten somewhat worse - it sounded pretty noisy when starting the car today. When the temperature was up to normal the rattle cannot really be heard when in neutral/idle, but can be heard when accelerating. Does this all sound pretty standard for a vanos that needs a rebuild? Is there any risk in keeping driving it?

Thanks!

If it’s getting worse then I’d move it up the list a bit. I know you’re focused on the bodywork but that can hang on. The engine needs looking after.

 

[poortomsacold]

So after just over a week of noticing the rattle it has gotten somewhat worse - it sounded pretty noisy when starting the car today. When the temperature was up to normal the rattle cannot really be heard when in neutral/idle, but can be heard when accelerating. Does this all sound pretty standard for a vanos that needs a rebuild? Is there any risk in keeping driving it?

Thanks!

If it’s getting worse then I’d move it up the list a bit. I know you’re focused on the bodywork but that can hang on. The engine needs looking after.

Totally agree - will try to get this sorted shortly so that the good bodywork will then be on a working car...! Does the vanos often deteriorate quite quickly once a rattle becomes noticeable do you know?