Engine rattle on cold start

[enuff_zed]

So after just over a week of noticing the rattle it has gotten somewhat worse - it sounded pretty noisy when starting the car today. When the temperature was up to normal the rattle cannot really be heard when in neutral/idle, but can be heard when accelerating. Does this all sound pretty standard for a vanos that needs a rebuild? Is there any risk in keeping driving it?

Thanks!

If it’s getting worse then I’d move it up the list a bit. I know you’re focused on the bodywork but that can hang on. The engine needs looking after.

Totally agree - will try to get this sorted shortly so that the good bodywork will then be on a working car...! Does the vanos often deteriorate quite quickly once a rattle becomes noticeable do you know?

I have not had one that actually got as far as rattling yet.
What would concern me is whether any bits can break away and get into the oil?
[ref]bigwinn[/ref], do you have more experience of this issue?

 

[poortomsacold]

Well I’ve elected for the better safe than sorry solution - booked her in with my local mechanic on Monday so he can diagnose the problem and we can take it from there!

 

[bigwinn]

The vanos rattle as far as I understand is not critical

It’s wear on the bearing rings which move in the unit- so ultimately it could fail but I’ve never seen that amount of wear

 

[poortomsacold]

The vanos rattle as far as I understand is not critical

It’s wear on the bearing rings which move in the unit- so ultimately it could fail but I’ve never seen that amount of wear

Thanks for that. Will report back once I know exactly what the issue is.

 

[poortomsacold]

To be fair, it wasn't just me though.

No there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on this forum. Am hoping that once the seals are changed the rare hesitation I have will go. Then at some stage to look into the clunk I sometimes get from the rear end when I change gears without compensating sufficiently well with the accelerator - another issue that seems quite common....it never ends!

It does end...eventually Twenty year old cars. Once you replace/repair all the original components that can give problems due to age/decomposition/heat cycles etc then life becomes much easier.
By the way that clunk from the rear end driveline will more than likely be the prop-shaft splines into the diff requiring some grease Drop the exhaust, drop the prop-shaft, apply correct grease...sorted. Another job you can tick off the list

Amy idea how long it'd take a mechanic to drop the prop shaft and apply the correct grease? I'm taking it to my mechanic next week for the rattle and whilst there will get the gearbox and diff oil changed, so wasn't sure if this was another job to get done at the same time perhaps?

 

[patriot66]

No there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on this forum. Am hoping that once the seals are changed the rare hesitation I have will go. Then at some stage to look into the clunk I sometimes get from the rear end when I change gears without compensating sufficiently well with the accelerator - another issue that seems quite common....it never ends!

It does end...eventually Twenty year old cars. Once you replace/repair all the original components that can give problems due to age/decomposition/heat cycles etc then life becomes much easier.
By the way that clunk from the rear end driveline will more than likely be the prop-shaft splines into the diff requiring some grease Drop the exhaust, drop the prop-shaft, apply correct grease...sorted. Another job you can tick off the list

Amy idea how long it'd take a mechanic to drop the prop shaft and apply the correct grease? I'm taking it to my mechanic next week for the rattle and whilst there will get the gearbox and diff oil changed, so wasn't sure if this was another job to get done at the same time perhaps?

Not too long. With the car up on a lift and air/electric tools it could probably be done in an hour or not much longer I would think. Takes considerably longer on your back with the car up on axle stands ! :roll: I used Liqui Moly 3510 LM 47 Long-Life Grease + MoS2 100 g https://amzn.eu/d/9QJHI9V

 

[poortomsacold]

It does end...eventually Twenty year old cars. Once you replace/repair all the original components that can give problems due to age/decomposition/heat cycles etc then life becomes much easier.
By the way that clunk from the rear end driveline will more than likely be the prop-shaft splines into the diff requiring some grease Drop the exhaust, drop the prop-shaft, apply correct grease...sorted. Another job you can tick off the list

Amy idea how long it'd take a mechanic to drop the prop shaft and apply the correct grease? I'm taking it to my mechanic next week for the rattle and whilst there will get the gearbox and diff oil changed, so wasn't sure if this was another job to get done at the same time perhaps?

Not too long. With the car up on a lift and air/electric tools it could probably be done in an hour or not much longer I would think. Takes considerably longer on your back with the car up on axle stands ! :roll: I used Liqui Moly 3510 LM 47 Long-Life Grease + MoS2 100 g https://amzn.eu/d/9QJHI9V

Brilliant - you have answered my next question re which grease to use as well!ay well get this done at the same time...and perhaps get the CDV removed as well!

 

[poortomsacold]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

 

[patriot66]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

Donut is t'other end of the prop-shaft, immediately on the back of the gearbox. Not a massive job to replace that also but the centre bearing/u.j joint support would need undoing and lowering also. My donut was like brand new so left it well alone. Unlike the splines at the diff end and centre bearing which as you can see were bone dry

 

[poortomsacold]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

Donut is t'other end of the prop-shaft, immediately on the back of the gearbox. Not a massive job to replace that also but the middle bearing/u.j joint support would need undoing and lowering also. My donut was like brand new so left it well alone. Unlike the splines at the diff end which as you can see were bone dry 20220209_130353.jpg20220209_130557.jpg20220209_130939.jpg

Those pictures are really helpful, thanks very much. I’ve ordered the grease (cheap as chips as it is) and will get my mechanic to give that a go, and will ask him to check the donut if he can whilst at it.

 

[patriot66]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

Donut is t'other end of the prop-shaft, immediately on the back of the gearbox. Not a massive job to replace that also but the middle bearing/u.j joint support would need undoing and lowering also. My donut was like brand new so left it well alone. Unlike the splines at the diff end which as you can see were bone dry 20220209_130353.jpg20220209_130557.jpg20220209_130939.jpg

Those pictures are really helpful, thanks very much. I’ve ordered the grease (cheap as chips as it is) and will get my mechanic to give that a go, and will ask him to check the donut if he can whilst at it.

No problem Tom. Hope you get it all sorted
Si

 

[poortomsacold]

Just to keep you all updated in the hope this may help others, but today the mechanic has reported that the noise is the water pump being on its way out. I cannot remember if I said but the rattle came on quickly and got progressively worse over the space of a week. So mechanic feels confident it's the water pump, so will be replacing that and checking/replacing the belts and possibly thermostat at the same time.

And whilst it's in he is also replacing the gearbox and diff oil, greasing the rear diff and, if he can, loosening the bloody bolt that is stuck under the steering column that is preventing me from performing the steering fix!

We will get there....one day!!!

 

[poortomsacold]

Right car is back, water pump replaced and engine rattle has gone. Really had no idea that a failing water pump would make such a worrying noise, so hopefully this post will help reassure others who have the same noises coming from their engine bay - not an expensive fix, plus got the belts done at the same time which is a positive as was told they were very worn.

Plus he managed to get the bloody stuck bolt moving again!

 

[enuff_zed]

Right car is back, water pump replaced and engine rattle has gone. Really had no idea that a failing water pump would make such a worrying noise, so hopefully this post will help reassure others who have the same noises coming from their engine bay - not an expensive fix, plus got the belts done at the same time which is a positive as was told they were very worn.

Plus he managed to get the bloody stuck bolt moving again!

No idea what idiot suggested it might be the vanos.
Suggest you have nothing further to do with them. :roll:
Glad you got that sorted, and one to store away in the memory banks.

 

[poortomsacold]

Right car is back, water pump replaced and engine rattle has gone. Really had no idea that a failing water pump would make such a worrying noise, so hopefully this post will help reassure others who have the same noises coming from their engine bay - not an expensive fix, plus got the belts done at the same time which is a positive as was told they were very worn.

Plus he managed to get the bloody stuck bolt moving again!

No idea what idiot suggested it might be the vanos.
Suggest you have nothing further to do with them. :roll:
Glad you got that sorted, and one to store away in the memory banks.

Well to be fair I had my ear against the vanos area of the engine and would have put good money on the noise coming from that area of the engine. Just goes to show how sound must travel.

 

[patriot66]

Glad the rattle has gone What about that hesitation/surging in 2nd and 3rd at low speed ? Is it still doing it ? Are you getting the VANOS rebuilt ?
Si

 

[poortomsacold]

Glad the rattle has gone What about that hesitation/surging in 2nd and 3rd at low speed ? Is it still doing it ? Are you getting the VANOS rebuilt ?
Si

Not driven it for long enough to find out yet. It only ever happened very occasionally - maybe only once or twice a week at most. But having read up on vanos rebuilds when I was certain that was the problem, I think I’ll look to have that done in due course anyway as it sounds as though it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[patriot66]

Glad the rattle has gone What about that hesitation/surging in 2nd and 3rd at low speed ? Is it still doing it ? Are you getting the VANOS rebuilt ?
Si

Not driven it for long enough to find out yet. It only ever happened very occasionally - maybe only once or twice a week at most. But having read up on vanos rebuilds when I was certain that was the problem, I think I’ll look to have that done in due course anyway as it sounds as though it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[Maddo6659]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

Donut is t'other end of the prop-shaft, immediately on the back of the gearbox. Not a massive job to replace that also but the centre bearing/u.j joint support would need undoing and lowering also. My donut was like brand new so left it well alone. Unlike the splines at the diff end and centre bearing which as you can see were bone dry 20220209_130353.jpg20220209_130557.jpg20220209_130939.jpg

One does not simply remove the exhaust! I've been soaking my exhaust flange nuts, (which are odd in sizes) to no avail. They will not budge. 13mm socket sidewall blew out. Anyone had to cut theirs out?

 

[patriot66]

Thinking about it [ref]patriot66[/ref], is it much extra work to replace the donut at the same time as greasing the prop-shaft? For all I know it could be a totally different job altogether but thought I’d ask! Cheers.

Donut is t'other end of the prop-shaft, immediately on the back of the gearbox. Not a massive job to replace that also but the centre bearing/u.j joint support would need undoing and lowering also. My donut was like brand new so left it well alone. Unlike the splines at the diff end and centre bearing which as you can see were bone dry 20220209_130353.jpg20220209_130557.jpg20220209_130939.jpg

One does not simply remove the exhaust! I've been soaking my exhaust flange nuts, (which are odd in sizes) to no avail. They will not budge. 13mm socket sidewall blew out. Anyone had to cut theirs out?

That depends whether you've already tackled the issue of well corroded flange studs and nuts previously or not