Just been reading various mags. web sites etc. on electic and hybrid cars. Latest stuff in Auto Car (UK weekly car mag.) shows some reasonable looking city type cars BUT with a range of only 95 miles AND a recharge time of 7 hours. So my question is, where is the energy saving in these things if you have to give it a 7 hour re charge every night? Anyone got one or thinking of going electric?
Electric or not....
- Thread starter AlanJ
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Not to mention the environmental impact the batteries in such vehicles pose.
as far as I can see it is just deferring the point of pollution. ie in the petrol/diesel car you have it in the exhausts, where the electric car is 'clean' as it has no exhaust gases, but something has to be used to produce the charge - ultimately power stations ,and being as noone wants nuclear on their back yard.... where is the gain?!
I need alot more convincing on the subject :roll:
as far as I can see it is just deferring the point of pollution. ie in the petrol/diesel car you have it in the exhausts, where the electric car is 'clean' as it has no exhaust gases, but something has to be used to produce the charge - ultimately power stations ,and being as noone wants nuclear on their back yard.... where is the gain?!
I need alot more convincing on the subject :roll:
Over here we have the Tesla Motorsports. Their Roadster is 0-60 in 4 flat, and can get up to 220 miles. I still believe the recharge time is up there around7 hours. These cars arent made for long drives, just the around town stuff.
My dad works in the industry and was telling me about some of his friends that had an EV 1. That is the car that Al Gore made the movie An Inconvenient Truth about, or atleast talked about the car. Well these guys had a small trailer behind theirs that had a small diesel generator. When the battery died the gen would kick on and they could average about 80 mpg
My dad works in the industry and was telling me about some of his friends that had an EV 1. That is the car that Al Gore made the movie An Inconvenient Truth about, or atleast talked about the car. Well these guys had a small trailer behind theirs that had a small diesel generator. When the battery died the gen would kick on and they could average about 80 mpg
If the Tesla model S lives up to the promises and isn't 4.8 gajillion pounds, I would definitely get one as an everyday/family-ferrying car and keep the Z for fun.
I can see a lot of sense in what Jay Leno said on Top Gear, about the electric car doing for the sports car what the automobile did for horses. Petrol sports cars will live on, but become hobby pieces... and I reckon will be the better for it
I can see a lot of sense in what Jay Leno said on Top Gear, about the electric car doing for the sports car what the automobile did for horses. Petrol sports cars will live on, but become hobby pieces... and I reckon will be the better for it
Z4_in_Norway
Member
The Tesla Model S is really nice. I love the look! I am definitely considering one (when they start producing in 2012).
Since in Norway cars are taxed HEAVILY on emissons (a 2007 2.5 costs around £ 40.000) this car will be very reasonable to purchase. The electricity production in Norway is also 100% from renewables (water power) IIRC, which makes it a clean(er) option.
But I was not aware about a huge environmental impact from battery production. Would be interesting to hear someone develop that argument.
Since in Norway cars are taxed HEAVILY on emissons (a 2007 2.5 costs around £ 40.000) this car will be very reasonable to purchase. The electricity production in Norway is also 100% from renewables (water power) IIRC, which makes it a clean(er) option.
But I was not aware about a huge environmental impact from battery production. Would be interesting to hear someone develop that argument.
Really? 100%?!Z4_in_Norway said:
Wow, that's impressive... I was going to make the point that electricity can come from renewable sources, where petrol obviously can't! (well, by definition it is renewable, just takes a few million years to renew
)Hydrogen fuel cells are probably a more likely solution though, being clean and the most abundant mineral in the known universe...
It's true that Hydro generated electricity is very very green but it's not available everywhere. Take a look around the UK, seen many large dams lately...wind power is also a great alternative but at the moment it's one of the most expensive sources on the grid , next to diesel generation. Sorry to say it but most of the power still comes from coal fired generating plants and will do for some time I think, for as mentioned before..."No-one wants a nuke in the backyard..."
I tried a Hybrid (rental) last spring on a trip south and was pleasantly surprised, tons of torque, lots of power and great gas mileage tearing around Phoenix on the expressways. It still burns gas but at a much lower rate so it was "slightly green". Maybe it's time we supported the hydrogen fuel cell research more as it seems to be a really promising alternative ...
I tried a Hybrid (rental) last spring on a trip south and was pleasantly surprised, tons of torque, lots of power and great gas mileage tearing around Phoenix on the expressways. It still burns gas but at a much lower rate so it was "slightly green". Maybe it's time we supported the hydrogen fuel cell research more as it seems to be a really promising alternative ...
Getting the hydrogen from sea water currently requires a huge amount of electricity - which comes from burning fossil fuels
The environmental impact of batteries mainly relates to the mining of the metals they require...cant remember the details but remember reading about it not so long ago
At the moment fossil fuels are still the cheapest form of energy, and until that changes the desire to develop alternatives will never be that strong
I don't do the sort of driving suitable for the current electric vehicles - I don't do short journeys (use the pedal bike for that) and my minimum car journey is usually a 50-mile round trip but more often at least 100-mile round trip. And with the way I drive there's no electric car out there that'd replace my Z4 for these journeys.
The Tesla is the best option, but it's been shown by several sources that the claimed 220-mile range is nowhere near possible if you drive it normally, and <100miles if driven enthusiastically (i.e. like you would a Z4). Cracking car though, as it would be being done in conjunction with Lotus
The Tesla is the best option, but it's been shown by several sources that the claimed 220-mile range is nowhere near possible if you drive it normally, and <100miles if driven enthusiastically (i.e. like you would a Z4). Cracking car though, as it would be being done in conjunction with Lotus
Z4_in_Norway
Member
Tweed said:Really? 100%?!Z4_in_Norway said:
Wow, that's impressive... I was going to make the point that electricity can come from renewable sources, where petrol obviously can't! (well, by definition it is renewable, just takes a few million years to renew
Hydrogen fuel cells are probably a more likely solution though, being clean and the most abundant mineral in the known universe...
It is pretty impressive. In a normal year (with regards to temperature and amount of rain) Norway can cover its own demand for electricity. The last few years in Norway have been mild and rainy and as a result the country has actually exported electricity.
I doubt 100% electricity from renewables would be possible in most other countries, but the dramatic landscape in Norway has many positives.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I read somewhere or seen on TV that part of Norways electricity is actually made by extracting the salt from sea water by using magnets of some description, and apparently this causes electicical particules to bubble out which are captured. That is by no means what I would call an accurate description of the process but it is in Use and I also believe that the UK imports some of this to boost our supplies.
Simply ingenious way of producing electricity, especially when you consider that all the power used to make the process happen already comes from 100% renewables.
Norway.
Simply ingenious way of producing electricity, especially when you consider that all the power used to make the process happen already comes from 100% renewables.
Norway.
A
Anonymous
Guest
As i said my description is not entirely accurate, But I knew I had seen something about it.
http://news.mongabay.com/2005/1219-wetsus.html
http://news.mongabay.com/2005/1219-wetsus.html
Z4_in_Norway
Member
Had never heard about this before. But a very interesting read.Nosa said:
Cost always seems to get in the way when it comes to renewables. :thumbsdown:
We want cleaner energy, but we are not willing to pay a higher price for it.
I personally think at electric cars are only useful for tackling localised pollution in Cities. Only problem is that they are not as effective as a pedal bike. The energy has to come from somewhere and in the uk (along with the vast majority of the worlds population) this generally means a coal, gas or oil power station. In a country like Norway where energy from renewable sources is abundant then it is a different matter. Is the Norwegian government encouraging the use of Electric cars like the British are?
This is an interesting article from the telegraph website regarding the issues the desired number of electric cars would pose to the national grid in the uk:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7874065/Electric-cars-must-be-taxed-to-pay-for-more-power-stations-or-National-Grid-could-fail.html
I read about the new electric mini in Autocar the other month, it think their verdict was "Good, but only for 74 miles" or something along those lines.
A friend of mine drives a Prius thing( I know this is a hybrid rather than purely electric). I think he manages around 4 mpg better than my 10 year old diesel skoda daily driver. The batteries weigh hundreds of kilos, the lithium is mined in Canada, shipped to Japan for processing, the overly heavy car is then shipped back to the uk where it provides worse economy than most most small diesel hatches whilst being subsidised by the tax payer. Then when the batteries are a few years old they have to be shipped back to Japan to be reprocessed in a custom built plant (covering several hundred acres of land that was probably a green field site previously) whilst a new battery is shipped back to the uk........
There was another article I read which was much more interesting....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/7867960/Car-fuel-made-from-carbon-dioxide-and-sunlight.html
long live the internal combustion engine!
This is an interesting article from the telegraph website regarding the issues the desired number of electric cars would pose to the national grid in the uk:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7874065/Electric-cars-must-be-taxed-to-pay-for-more-power-stations-or-National-Grid-could-fail.html
I read about the new electric mini in Autocar the other month, it think their verdict was "Good, but only for 74 miles" or something along those lines.
A friend of mine drives a Prius thing( I know this is a hybrid rather than purely electric). I think he manages around 4 mpg better than my 10 year old diesel skoda daily driver. The batteries weigh hundreds of kilos, the lithium is mined in Canada, shipped to Japan for processing, the overly heavy car is then shipped back to the uk where it provides worse economy than most most small diesel hatches whilst being subsidised by the tax payer. Then when the batteries are a few years old they have to be shipped back to Japan to be reprocessed in a custom built plant (covering several hundred acres of land that was probably a green field site previously) whilst a new battery is shipped back to the uk........
There was another article I read which was much more interesting....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/7867960/Car-fuel-made-from-carbon-dioxide-and-sunlight.html
long live the internal combustion engine!
as far as batteries are concerned, I have a buddy from college working who is working on a way to extract lithium from soil using methods that can be adapted to be used in third world afirca, so hopefully it will catch on and he will remember when he is rich