EBC Green Stuff Pad Failure

[mmm-five]

I've had Redstuff, Yellowstuff, Bluestuff NDX on various cars over the last 10 years and haven't had a single failure - and that included plenty of track days, fast road driving and 'Ring trips. Used them on both my e34 M5s (Red then Yellow) and my Z4MC (Yellows & Blues).

I also only ever buy directly from EBC (http://ebcbrakes.com/) or from one of their reputable re-sellers as it has been known for fakes to be supplied from unofficial suppliers.

But to balance this out, I've also bought a set of Greenstuff for my mate that separated after about a year/10,000 miles - EBC replaced them without question, just asked for the old pads back to see if they could trace the fault to a specific batch.

I've also had Ferodo & Pagid road/track pads crumble/separate, so bad batches are not limited to one manufacturer.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I had a set of Yellowstuff which suffered from delamination of the friction material from the backplate with consequent temporary loss of brakes (I was on a forum outing at the time). I also melted a set of Yellowstuff on a trackday! Before I came to Oz I switched to Bluestuff and found them to be fantastic on both road and track. I'm hoping to have a BBK waiting for me by the time I'm back in the UK otherwise I would have to think very carefully about buying further EBC products.

 

[domsz4]

i had some greenstuff pads and black diamond drilled/grooved discs on a v6 mondeo where pretty much the same thing happened.

i was in Cumbria when they failed and had decided that i wouldn't go over the hardnott pass that day to cut the corner off to get to whitehaven.

anyway the quickest way to get get new pads at the time was the ford garage, they said the greenstuff pads were too soft for the type of discs and probably caused the failure.

dunno if they were just trying to blow smoke up my ass but their argument was sound and other people agreed with their observations.

never had them since but thats partly due to not needing them on a focus and preferring mintex 1144 on the westy.

 

[Ewazix]

There are lots of reports of EBC pads coming adrift from 2008 to date, personally I stuck to Textar who are an OEM for BMW and many other biggies.

At the end of the day all pads are Euro regulated and have to to made within a very narrow range of specifications and performance, being within 15% of original. So that's the maximum difference + or - in one area of performance that's allowed, obviously improvement in fade resistance for example may reduce initial cold use performance so it's a trade-off. The rest is quality control and branding hype (red green etc) which counts for nowt if they fall apart.

Specialist kit for track use is a different game of course and I've no idea if that's regulated, presumably not?

 

[mmm-five]

So, has anyone who's experienced a failure actually contacted EBC for an answer/solution?

I'm not saying they'll have an answer that is acceptable in all cases, but at least you'll find out whether it's due to a bad batch, poor maintenance/care, fake product, bedding-in procedure, misuse/abuse, braking technique, poor installation, etc.

A pad that has Euro R90 certification has to follow the ±15% rule, but a pad sold as 'not for road use' doesn't have to do so (in EBC's case this is Bluestuff/Orangestuff).

Greenstuff is not a peformance pad
Redstuff is a street pad
Yellowstuff is fast road/track pad (road biased)
Bluestuff is a fast road/track pad (track biased)
Orangestudd is a track/race pad

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I didn't get an explanation from EBC as to why my Yellowstuff pad delaminated. I returned the pads to them "for investigation" but heard no more despite requesting that they keep me informed. The set I melted on the track worked perfectly well for the entire day and the 100 mile journey home. When I changed from my track to road wheels, I inspected the pads purely as a routine. There was clear evidence of overheating with surface melting and fairly extensive fissuring of the pad material. I've had no such problems with Bluestuff, although they are rather abrasive to the discs.

 

[mihai.ile]

Hello,

I found this thread on the net and similar ones and I just registered here also to say that I too have EBC brake pads and failed by separating themselves from the metal part on both sides on front wheels (the inner part on both sides) and thankfully I did not have to do an emergency brake or brake hard on the highway!

The pads were EBC red stuff and had very very very very light use, no abuse at all. They failed after around 1year and half.

Below I add the pictures, my car is not a BMW, but a Smart Roadster but it does not matter really, I just found this topic on the net and wanted to warn that this is not a reliable product! Brakes is not something you would ever want to fail. Now I have nothing against EBC, I am actually shocked that this happened especially because for Smart Roadster there are not many brand of brake pads apart OEM ones, but wanted to spread the word that while some of the pads work perfectly, others, like mine fail miserabely and this is serious matter; imagine if I had to brake on the highway here in Germany at speeds over 170km/h which while I do not do regularly it happens from time to time to travel at those speeds.
If you have EBC brake pads fitted, please check your brake pads people.

Just to update my situation. At the time I contacted EBC directly and they answered right away saying that they will replace them with a new set. After one month nothing happened and when contacted again I was informed that the shipping was already done but returned because of address errors. I asked if they could send again and in less than one week now I had the new pack of pads on my door for free. So what can I say, check for pads integrity and if something seems just not right with them try to contact EBC because at least in my case they were very friendly and helped imediately. Very very good customer service indeed.

 

[RichardG]

Can't bloody believe, driving home from Dumfries thinking everything in the garden is rosy, sun is shining top down car feeling great when I hear a noise from the back end followed, thinking I'd maybe just run over something I carried on, a few miles down the road slight dab on the brakes and the pedal almost hits the floor, it pumps up and a few stabs on the brakes reveals no horrible noises but blow me a quick check round the car when I get in and I've had yet another pad disintergrate.

I will never buy an EBC product again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[simonlpearce]

I have to admit i had always heard bad things about EBC, but never experienced it despite running their pads for many years. However since there are such a large number of people on here that have bad experiences, i think i will steer well clear!

 

[GBSC]

Time to bring this thread back to life!

I'm writing to you on behalf of the Global Brake Safety Council (GBSC), which was established with the intent to uphold the highest standards in brake safety.

One of the reasons for the friction material falling off the disc brake plate is the excessive rust build-up between the backing plate and the friction, causing what's known as "rust jacking". This is becoming more of an issue because friction manufacturers are using mill scale steel, commonly referred to as 'black steel', which contains a layer of oxides. This layer, if not properly removed, will be trapped under the friction layer during the manufacturing process. These oxides turn to rust and cause separation between the disc brake plate and the friction (rust jacking), which eventually leads to the friction falling off. This is obviously a major safety concern!

Currently, aftermarket manufacturers of disc brake shoes are self regulated and are expected to engage in 'responsible' manufacturing. With more and more manufacturers moving production to low cost countries such as China and India to cut operating cost, they are also cutting corners and jeopardizing the quality of their disc brake shoes and your safety.

The solution is simple: Friction manufacturers MUST use disc brake steel that is free of any mill scale or oxides. This steel is referred to as "pickled and oiled" steel, which goes through a process of acid wash to remove all mill scale and contaminants from the steel.

GBSC has released a detailed report on this safety issue in the brake industry and is currently engaging government and lawmakers to raise awareness on this issue and set legislation for all North American manufacturers to adhere to.
Please visit our website http://www.gbscouncil.com for more info and to download the full report.


Furthermore, friction lining is bonded to the backing plate using a layer of glue. The glue is activated during the curing process, which occurs under high heat and pressure. However, this bonding method is known to fail, especially when subjected to high levels of heat cycles, such as racing and track applications.

A superior and proven method of attachments is a type of mechanical attachment, called NRS. This attachment method consists of metal hooks penetrating into the friction material, creating higher shear values and a much stronger bond with the lining.
For more information on NRS technology, visit http://www.nucap.com/products/backing-plates/nrs/

Regards,
GBSC

 

[BMWZ4MC]

.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Time to bring this thread back to life!

I'm writing to you on behalf of the Global Brake Safety Council (GBSC), which was established with the intent to uphold the highest standards in brake safety.

One of the reasons for the friction material falling off the disc brake plate is the excessive rust build-up between the backing plate and the friction, causing what's known as "rust jacking". This is becoming more of an issue because friction manufacturers are using mill scale steel, commonly referred to as 'black steel', which contains a layer of oxides. This layer, if not properly removed, will be trapped under the friction layer during the manufacturing process. These oxides turn to rust and cause separation between the disc brake plate and the friction (rust jacking), which eventually leads to the friction falling off. This is obviously a major safety concern!

Currently, aftermarket manufacturers of disc brake shoes are self regulated and are expected to engage in 'responsible' manufacturing. With more and more manufacturers moving production to low cost countries such as China and India to cut operating cost, they are also cutting corners and jeopardizing the quality of their disc brake shoes and your safety.

The solution is simple: Friction manufacturers MUST use disc brake steel that is free of any mill scale or oxides. This steel is referred to as "pickled and oiled" steel, which goes through a process of acid wash to remove all mill scale and contaminants from the steel.

GBSC has released a detailed report on this safety issue in the brake industry and is currently engaging government and lawmakers to raise awareness on this issue and set legislation for all North American manufacturers to adhere to.
Please visit our website <a class="postlink" href="http://www.gbscouncil.com">http://www.gbscouncil.com</a> for more info and to download the full report.


Furthermore, friction lining is bonded to the backing plate using a layer of glue. The glue is activated during the curing process, which occurs under high heat and pressure. However, this bonding method is known to fail, especially when subjected to high levels of heat cycles, such as racing and track applications.

A superior and proven method of attachments is a type of mechanical attachment, called NRS. This attachment method consists of metal hooks penetrating into the friction material, creating higher shear values and a much stronger bond with the lining.
For more information on NRS technology, visit <a class="postlink" href="http://www.nucap.com/products/backing-plates/nrs/">http://www.nucap.com/products/backing-plates/nrs/</a>

Regards,
GBSC

Very interesting, thanks for posting