E89 roof relay change

RobbiZ4 said:
Smartbear said:
Hi, not wanting to watch the endless repeats on tv over the crimbo period, i thought I’d change the 2 salmon relays that operate the roof.
The first thing to do is clear the boot of any blankets etc :P
865CEC64-2607-45E8-89D4-BE9874A694DF.jpeg
You can see the salmon relays in this pic, the white coloured clips are fiddly to release in this position
A26C3731-9FDB-4760-9DE7-EAEE61C6331D.jpeg

If you undo the T25 torx securing the mounting bracket the job becomes a lot easier

F3918187-4426-4174-B0DC-A65CF14A6060.jpeg

629C00C1-93A7-411B-82AE-38AE3C11DDD1.jpeg
Click to expand...

Hi Rob, there is a much easier way without using a tool:
just press the black clip on top of the two red wires on your 2nd picture. By that you can slide out the whole unit. :rofl:
RelaysUnit.jpg

Rob, another thing:
you have to look at the inner relay contacts as these are the critical ones. The outer contact shown on your picture is not of any interest.
In between we have taken a video of an opened relay @work:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/zKQVfM9CK64[/youtube]


Background info to the complete relay story:
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/urgent-recommendation-to-replace-the-pink-hardtop-hydraulic-relays.3815/

My original post in German:
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/z4-e85-e89-z8-e52-1er-2er-3er-e93-4er-f33-6er-e64-f12-minir57-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-2-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521/

Translated by Google:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zroadster.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2Fz4-e85-e89-z8-e52-1er-2er-3er-e93-4er-f33-6er-e64-f12-minir57-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-2-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521%2F
Click to expand...


I've just been reading through your posts, it says to change these relays every 2 years whereas in other places on this forum I have read to change it every 5 years or so. Should they really be changed every 2 years? I would have thought relays should last longer than that. Anyhow the stealers contacted me today, mine have arrived this morning so it will be a job for me to do over the holidays.
 
tintoverano said:
[ref]RobbiZ4[/ref], I got confused by your reply to Rob:
RobbiZ4 said:
you have to look at the inner relay contacts as these are the critical ones. The outer contact shown on your picture is not of any interest.
Click to expand...

are the inner relays, you mention, different ones to what Rob replaced?

in your German post I just found the same part number

thanks
Click to expand...

Same relays, different internal contacts :thumbsup:
Rob
 
Silverstar said:
RobbiZ4 said:
Smartbear said:
Hi, not wanting to watch the endless repeats on tv over the crimbo period, i thought I’d change the 2 salmon relays that operate the roof.
The first thing to do is clear the boot of any blankets etc :P
865CEC64-2607-45E8-89D4-BE9874A694DF.jpeg
You can see the salmon relays in this pic, the white coloured clips are fiddly to release in this position
A26C3731-9FDB-4760-9DE7-EAEE61C6331D.jpeg

If you undo the T25 torx securing the mounting bracket the job becomes a lot easier

F3918187-4426-4174-B0DC-A65CF14A6060.jpeg

629C00C1-93A7-411B-82AE-38AE3C11DDD1.jpeg
Click to expand...

Hi Rob, there is a much easier way without using a tool:
just press the black clip on top of the two red wires on your 2nd picture. By that you can slide out the whole unit. :rofl:
RelaysUnit.jpg

Rob, another thing:
you have to look at the inner relay contacts as these are the critical ones. The outer contact shown on your picture is not of any interest.
In between we have taken a video of an opened relay @work:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/zKQVfM9CK64[/youtube]


Background info to the complete relay story:
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/urgent-recommendation-to-replace-the-pink-hardtop-hydraulic-relays.3815/

My original post in German:
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/z4-e85-e89-z8-e52-1er-2er-3er-e93-4er-f33-6er-e64-f12-minir57-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-2-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521/

Translated by Google:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zroadster.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2Fz4-e85-e89-z8-e52-1er-2er-3er-e93-4er-f33-6er-e64-f12-minir57-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-2-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521%2F
Click to expand...


I've just been reading through your posts, it says to change these relays every 2 years whereas in other places on this forum I have read to change it every 5 years or so. Should they really be changed every 2 years? I would have thought relays should last longer than that. Anyhow the stealers contacted me today, mine have arrived this morning so it will be a job for me to do over the holidays.
Click to expand...

I think that’s a mistake, further on in the same thread Robbi says to change the 2 relays every 5 years :thumbsup:
405CDCED-B7FA-487B-AB05-DA8EB91FEA8B.png
Rob
 
I would have thought 5 to 6 years would be fine, the relays would probably last the life time of the car, but for the sake of £30 or so it’s not worth risking damaging the motor if they were to fail.
 
My relays lasted ten years before the roof started to freeze.
The roof was used daily through good weather by me through the last 7 years i have owned the car.
Replacing the relays cured the problem.
But on the bench there didn't seem to be any wrong with them.
I multi-metered the contacts and no unusual resistance.
They pulled in easy on a 9V pp3 battery.

Would have thought the only way the motor burns is if the roof doesn't complete cycle and continues to run to try and complete sequence.
Say if a faulty sensor or microswitch not making contact.
The high current flow welds the relays and the motor burns.
The arcing seen in the video is normal for DC contacts.
Would seem the overheat sensor is on the hydraulics, but needs to be on the motor.
What is needed is a motor overheat alarm.

What type of fuse is fitted. Perhaps it's too large to trip before the motor burns.
The power comes direct from battery, there is no way to cut the power if the relay welds.

I never noticed if the pin outs were standard 12volt 50a automotive relay, they can be had for £5.
 
So it's programmed to time out if the cycle lasts too long and the temp sensor can sense motor overheat.

But still can't work out what was wrong with my relays or at least one was faulty.

I will check tomorrow, but what i found strange was the Foxwell real time read out, didn't show one relay operating for say open cycle, then the other for close. My roof opened half way then stopped as it switched to the other (faulty) relay.
It seems half way through the cycle it switched from rotating the motor one way then switched to the other relay to reverse the motor.
I switched the relays over and the roof would then reclose but not reopen.
 
Thanks to Smartbear and RobbiZ4 I have today changed the salmon relays. As per what RobbiZ4 says, it's was a very simple job just pressed the black tab above the two red wires and the entire holder with the 2 salmon relays slid out and I managed the unclip the old relays with my fingers, no tools required and a very simple 5 minute job.

Here you the can see the new and old one next to each other. The date stamp on the old one appears to be week 22 year 2009 which falls inline with the June 2009 the date of manufacture of my car, which also means that these relays have never been changed!

One small point though the old one says 63A whereas the new one is 42A, is this Amps or has some other meaning? if it is Amps why the difference? have BMW modified these to not cause problems like the previous perhaps did?:

IMG_5370.JPG

The part numbers are the same though:

IMG_2476.JPG
 
RobbiZ4 said:
Now you have to remove the housings, bend away the outer contacts, unclip the movable middle parts and take sharp photos of the inner contacts.

These are standard relays use by BMW since decades in dozens of models.
Click to expand...

Do you mean to remove the orange plastic case from the relay?
 
RobbiZ4 said:
Smartbear said:
RobbiZ4 said:
Yes
Yes. :driving:
Click to expand...

Have you got a pic of the hidden inner contacts?
Rob
Click to expand...
:rofl:
Still working on getting access to it. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Are the inner relay contacts normally made or normally open? If normally made a meter set to ohms on the correct base pins would reveal the integrity of the contacts & how bad they are? :?
Rob
 
RobbiZ4 said:
Photos!!

Open
no quality check per ohm meter possible
pick up and fail, ähh fall :rofl:
Click to expand...

Ok, if the inner contacts are normally open then it would be useful to pick up the relay to make the inner contacts & then a resistance measurement could be taken giving an indication of health :thumbsup:
Rob
 
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