E89 Market watch

[Pondy]

That was my car. Anyone on here could have bought it for £26k. The good news for me is that Listers BMW were prepared to offer very close to that via Wizzle.

I doubt I could have sold it for more privately and it was a hassle free way of moving it on. Bearing in mind what I paid for it five years ago I could never had imagined then getting so much for it now.

We are all pushing prices up by doing the above. I am as guilty as anyone, as I also sold a car for £1500 more than I would have let it go for, purely because a dealer offered it, and you ain't gonna say NO, are you?

It's simple, there are no dark forces at play. One thing the car selling industry is not is clever.
They think next week, not next year.
Dealers have very few cars to sell, especially new ones. So they will pay a premium for a good used car, which they think will sell quickly. They have to make money (it's what they do; sell cars at a profit to make money), if nothing else but pay their overheads.
So us selling through WBAC, Motorway, Wizzle, wherever, puts our cars into the dealer network. They are not selling the volume they normally would but their overheads are the same. So they will mark up each car by more than they normally would have done before, which pushes prices even higher. And because they are all doing the same, prices are roughly even across the board, therefore there is no incentive to reduce prices to compete.
Then there is the recent phenomenon of the few remaining private sellers seeing prices rising and having a punt at those dealer prices, so buying privately is not a financial gain for the buyer.

It would normally be "supply and demand" dictating prices. At the moment it's "supply and needing to keep the lights on", which is slightly different.

 

[Colin_E]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but that's still supply & demand in my view. It's always supply & demand.
Just right now it's a sellers market.

 

[Z4MAD]

That was my car. Anyone on here could have bought it for £26k. The good news for me is that Listers BMW were prepared to offer very close to that via Wizzle.

I doubt I could have sold it for more privately and it was a hassle free way of moving it on. Bearing in mind what I paid for it five years ago I could never had imagined then getting so much for it now.

We are all pushing prices up by doing the above. I am as guilty as anyone, as I also sold a car for £1500 more than I would have let it go for, purely because a dealer offered it, and you ain't gonna say NO, are you?

It's simple, there are no dark forces at play. One thing the car selling industry is not is clever.
They think next week, not next year.
Dealers have very few cars to sell, especially new ones. So they will pay a premium for a good used car, which they think will sell quickly. They have to make money (it's what they do; sell cars at a profit to make money), if nothing else but pay their overheads.
So us selling through WBAC, Motorway, Wizzle, wherever, puts our cars into the dealer network. They are not selling the volume they normally would but their overheads are the same. So they will mark up each car by more than they normally would have done before, which pushes prices even higher. And because they are all doing the same, prices are roughly even across the board, therefore there is no incentive to reduce prices to compete.
Then there is the recent phenomenon of the few remaining private sellers seeing prices rising and having a punt at those dealer prices, so buying privately is not a financial gain for the buyer.

It would normally be "supply and demand" dictating prices. At the moment it's "supply and needing to keep the lights on", which is slightly different.

Dear Comrade Pondrew,
Thank you for responding to this post. I had wanted to, but restrained myself from doing so.

With kind regards,

MAD

 

[Z4MAD]

I note that Hendyshop in Portsmouth has an almost identical machine in that it is the same year, identical colour circa three thousand miles more and is priced at four thousand pounds less; it has been available for almost five weeks. They also have a grey 35is.
With kind regards,
MAD

And you wrote that in plain English!

Congratulations!

Dear Comrade SV8Predator,

Yes, it was jolly hard work to do so

With kind regards,

MAD

 

[Pondy]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but that's still supply & demand in my view. It's always supply & demand.
Just right now it's a sellers market.

I see your point and sort of agree Colin. Normally if demand outstrips supply that would inflate prices, but there is more to it ATM. Yes demand is high, as there are few new cars. I have been watching the used car market very closely for months, and have spoken to a main dealer's group buyer. They are artificially inflating prices by having a minimum margin that they have to achieve just to keep the lights on (and any big dealership have a lot of lights).
If they would normally sell 40 cars a month at £2,000 profit, that's £80k a month.
If they only have 20 cars a month to sell and still need £80k a month, those cars will need to sell for £4,000 profit.
It's exactly the same in the housing market (which I have been allied to for 25 years. Not as an estate agent I might add).
Lack of "stock" is pushing prices up. Not because there are more people chasing fewer houses, because the agents have overheads to meet.

The two markets have a lot in common. The used car market is now massively dominated by the trade, who are only in it to make money. The housing market is 100% dominated by the same.

If you think about it, the two most valuable purchases we make in the modern world, houses and cars, both have absolutely zero regulation and are industries run entirely by profit-chasing chancers. Both are dominated by people who only care about making their next buck. Tell me I'm wrong, please.

 

[Z4MAD]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but that's still supply & demand in my view. It's always supply & demand.
Just right now it's a sellers market.

I see your point and sort of agree Colin. Normally if demand outstrips supply that would inflate prices, but there is more to it ATM. Yes demand is high, as there are few new cars. I have been watching the used car market very closely for months, and have spoken to a main dealer's group buyer. They are artificially inflating prices by having a minimum margin that they have to achieve just to keep the lights on (and any big dealership have a lot of lights).
If they would normally sell 40 cars a month at £2,000 profit, that's £80k a month.
If they only have 20 cars a month to sell and still need £80k a month, those cars will need to sell for £4,000 profit.
It's exactly the same in the housing market (which I have been allied to for 25 years. Not as an estate agent I might add).
Lack of "stock" is pushing prices up. Not because there are more people chasing fewer houses, because the agents have overheads to meet.

The two markets have a lot in common. The used car market is now massively dominated by the trade, who are only it to make money. The housing market is 100% dominated by the same.

If you think about it, the two most valuable purchases we make in the modern world, houses and cars, both have absolutely zero regulation and are industries run entirely by profit-chasing chancers. Both are dominated by people who only care about making their next buck. Tell me I'm wrong, please.

Dearest Comrade Pondrew,

YOU ARE WRONG

With love and best wishes from,

Sabrina - MAD's Chauffeuse

 

[Colin_E]

I agree with most of what you're saying BUT my point was that it is still supply & demand.
Supply is constrained because chip shortages have slowed new car production with knock-on effects for used cars. Demand remains healthy. So an efficient market restores equilibrium by rising prices. Those prices will only go up if buyers tolerate them (=Demand).
Dealers may well face pressures just to stay in business & I dare say will seek to make extra profits if the market will bear it. Meanwhile though, market forces have other readily observable effects:
- Dealers need to pay more for their stock as supply & demand influence their buying prices - probably eroding their margins too.
- New entrants & 'disruptors' seek ways of tapping into a profitable market. Look at how the likes of WBAC, Motorway, Cinch etc have upped their game. These guys probably have fewer overheads on a per car sold basis. so can compete AND make money.
So whilst a 'need' for a higher return per car might influence the marketing strategies of some dealers - it is debateable whether they'll make £4k per car against £2k in 'normal' circumstances in the longer term. They don't have enough control. Realistically I think we may see fewer used car dealers as some get driven out of business.

In many ways I think economists would view trading motor cars to be a near 'perfect' market precisely because it is unregulated, has few barriers to entry and responds readily to market forces.

 

[Z4MAD]

Dear Comrades,

Hendyshop in Portsmouth has a Tarmac-grey BMW Z4 35is for which they are seeking more than Thirty Thousand Pounds. They have another in Tortoise Excrement Orange for a slightly lesser sum.

And yes, I am the fount of all wisdom concerning the pecuniary disparity at which the BMW Z4 35is exemplars are marketed. I do find it to be just so absolutely fascinating to observe; frequently, and most usually following the vespertine part of the previous day, the prices will drop by two thousand pounds, then, just a few days later just after the crepuscular aspect of day immediately fades prior to late eventide, the price will yet again evaporate by a further five hundred pounds. I do not know whether this is an manifestation precipitated by the velvet cloak of darkness that whence drawn-in by the nightwings from Vulcan's celestial cave then create an deflationary impact. It could well be a harbinger of stagflation yet to come along with the propensity of higher interest rates, which will create an inverted 'interest rates' in those of a mind to furnish themselves with with a machine with an three litre twin turbocharged source of motive power. Furthermore, this could well become the catalyst that increases the desirability of the Z4 exemplars fitted with a smaller engine, which will of course be far more economical to run. I foresee a sort of 'Bank Run' on 35i and 35is models, whereupon investors in them will abandon their assets as they observe values heading south at a more than alarming rate. And then of course, the smaller engined examples of the BMW Z4 then will sky-rocket in value. I recollect this happening to Ferrari Daytona's in many years now past. I say unto those mindful of protecting their financial investments to bale out of their BMW Z4 35is forthwith, and yes, I am well known for my altruisim and philanthropy and am, therefore, fully prepared to make an immediate settlement of thirty one and a quarter per cent less of today's price of an BMW Z4 35is in Melbourne Red with a cream interior, or an mid-metallic blue with a cream interior. I must, however, place this caveat: it should have the whole range of accessories commensurate with an perfect example of such a device, replete with an BMW service history along with an commensurately low smileage. Bear in mind that, in an stagflationary market this MADnificently generous offer cannot be available for more than an exiguous period of time. And yes, I have spoken this in an basilect accent such that the proletariat may understand; I am prepared to transpose to an acrolect accent such that it may also be interpreted by the bourgeoise and aristocracy,... please advise accordingly.

With kind regards,

MAD

 

[tiglon]

I've got to mention this one again, now up to £20k and still unsold after what must be getting close to a year.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256476628?minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&min-engine-power=300&radius=1500&postcode=co11uw&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2013&price-to=22500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=year-desc&body-type=Convertible&maximum-seats=2&page=1

Now up to £21k

 

[Argyll Andy]

I've got to mention this one again, now up to £20k and still unsold after what must be getting close to a year.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256476628?minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&min-engine-power=300&radius=1500&postcode=co11uw&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2013&price-to=22500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=year-desc&body-type=Convertible&maximum-seats=2&page=1

Now up to £21k

I’ve l ready given you my opinion on that car and ad :thumbsdown:

I wonder if they did a WBAC quote early on and every time they get an increased offer they up the asking price. No matter what their base spec’d car ain’t going to get £21k

 

[Z4MAD]

I've got to mention this one again, now up to £20k and still unsold after what must be getting close to a year.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256476628?minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&min-engine-power=300&radius=1500&postcode=co11uw&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2013&price-to=22500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=year-desc&body-type=Convertible&maximum-seats=2&page=1

Now up to £21k

I’ve l ready given you my opinion on that car and ad :thumbsdown:

I wonder if they did a WBAC quote early on and every time they get an increased offer they up the asking price. No matter what their base spec’d car ain’t going to get £21k

Dear Comrade Argyll Andy,

Advertised prices appear to be hugely disordered making it terribly difficult for any personage endeavouring to make some semblance of logic out of the perceived disorder. This notwithstanding, it is bound to soon settle, with the present froth diminishing such that it will then be possible to perceive a more comfortable degree of rationality in the market place.

With kind regards,

MAD

 

[Ole gits rule]

I've got to mention this one again, now up to £20k and still unsold after what must be getting close to a year.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256476628?minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&min-engine-power=300&radius=1500&postcode=co11uw&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2013&price-to=22500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=year-desc&body-type=Convertible&maximum-seats=2&page=1

Now up to £21k

I’ve l ready given you my opinion on that car and ad :thumbsdown:

I wonder if they did a WBAC quote early on and every time they get an increased offer they up the asking price. No matter what their base spec’d car ain’t going to get £21k

This guy seriously needs a reality check, not sold after 12mths on sale so keep upping the asking price - someone needs total his meds away quickly, what would he say if I offered the original £15k the car was advertised at

 

[Argyll Andy]

Now up to £21k

I’ve l ready given you my opinion on that car and ad :thumbsdown:

I wonder if they did a WBAC quote early on and every time they get an increased offer they up the asking price. No matter what their base spec’d car ain’t going to get £21k

This guy seriously needs a reality check, not sold after 12mths on sale so keep upping the asking price - someone needs total his meds away quickly, what would he say if I offered the original £15k the car was advertised at

I think I said previously I’d considered offering £14k/£15k spending a bit on it and offering back up for sale for a small profit. Cloud Cuckooland

 

[Ole gits rule]

Keep this up and in 12 months a new G29 will be cheaper - even £15k is too much if your looking to sell on, its a pretty basic spec car

 

[Argyll Andy]

Keep this up and in 12 months a new G29 will be cheaper - even £15k is too much if your looking to sell on, its a pretty basic spec car

A new G29 is thousands cheaper than half a dozen used ones on the BMW AUC site. There’s a 2 year old first edition at £50k

 

[Ole gits rule]

Keep this up and in 12 months a new G29 will be cheaper - even £15k is too much if your looking to sell on, its a pretty basic spec car

A new G29 is thousands cheaper than half a dozen used ones on the BMW AUC site. There’s a 2 year old first edition at £50k

Ouch - I love the frozen orange but not at that money for certain

 

[Argyll Andy]

Keep this up and in 12 months a new G29 will be cheaper - even £15k is too much if your looking to sell on, its a pretty basic spec car

A new G29 is thousands cheaper than half a dozen used ones on the BMW AUC site. There’s a 2 year old first edition at £50k

Ouch - I love the frozen orange but not at that money for certain

The first 8 are at money you could get a new one for, when you could order a new one a few months ago

 

[Ole gits rule]

A new G29 is thousands cheaper than half a dozen used ones on the BMW AUC site. There’s a 2 year old first edition at £50k

Ouch - I love the frozen orange but not at that money for certain

The first 8 are at money you could get a new one for, when you could order a new one a few months ago

Market is strong for used cars and the top end models seem be holding evermore money

 

[Nanu]

I suppose there is a premium for getting your hands on the car you want rather than having to wait for 6/9 months for a new one.

 

[Ole gits rule]

10K and first owner, think I would wait