E89 35i / 35is / 28i auto

[clifford72]

Hi folks.

I'm new to the forum and on the look out for a well loved and well maintained E89 35i / 35is / 28i.

I'm based between Cambridge and London, UK, but willing to travel for the right car.

Nervous about the n20 engine (timing chains, guides and bearings), but not writing off a 28i, or a great spec 20i with the necessary timing guide replacements, regular oil changes, low miles etc.

- Ideally Deep Sea Blue, or Mineral Grey with Beige Kansas Leather, but I'm open to black interior / exterior.
- Ideally post 2013, but not tied to that idea for the right car
- Auto transmission preferred
- Keen to avoid the active suspension where I can, through fear of replacement costs.

Very happy to take advice from the collective wisdom of the group!

I'm looking to use the car for GT trips to Europe, two up, minimal luggage, and enjoy the 5mins of summer weekends the UK weather usually graces us with!

Thanks for all the useful reading on the forum so far.
C.

 

[Silverstar]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

So you are nervous about the N20 but you are ok with the N54? The N54 has more things to go wrong but saying that for me out of the three options it would be the 35i or 35is, you just can't beat 6 cylinders for the smoothness (balance) and sound, makes the car feel more special!

Some will say the N20 with it's lighther front end make it a little more nimble but you've just stated you want to do GT trips for that the 6 cylinders is hard to beat. On those long journeys you will see hardly any difference in fuel consumption too, another point some give to the N20.

 

[clifford72]

Thanks Silverstar.

Maybe I just haven't heard all the bad news about N54 yet?! I'm all ears!

I used to have a e46 330ci and miss the M54 engine in that.

Interesting note about the fuel consumption on longer journeys - I'd assumed the 6 would be way worse, so anything else is a bonus. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Silverstar]

I am sure someone with N54 experience will come along soon but from what I have heard high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, turbo waste gates amongst other things that go wrong with the N54.

 

[john-e89]

Thanks Silverstar.

Maybe I just haven't heard all the bad news about N54 yet?! I'm all ears!

I used to have a e46 330ci and miss the M54 engine in that.

Interesting note about the fuel consumption on longer journeys - I'd assumed the 6 would be way worse, so anything else is a bonus. Thanks for the heads up.

Hey Clifford

Tbh I found the 4 pot cars even more unbalanced than the 6 pot, there’s approx 100kg difference, and with the back end already coping with a top heavy roof the lighter front felt made it even worse, so personally I much prefer the N54.

You’re also forced into forum scaremongering with places like these, you hear the issues all day long but you don’t hear how many cars not involved on forums, or that don’t have issues being talked about. Sure the 35 series cars have issues, but as I say you don’t hear the whole story of them as an average, so take some of what you hear with a pinch of salt, they don’t all suffer. I’ve had approx 7 35 cars, 6 35is’s and one 35i, the 35i is currently on 119K miles and pulls like a train, close your eyes and you’d not believe it wasn’t a couple of years old. Neither have I had any engine problems with any of them, not one, with mileage ranging from brand new to 119k miles, and pretty much everything in between. I’m not suggesting there aren’t issues, but don’t be put off a car that you really want due to forum paranoia is my opinion.

One thing to be aware of again imo, is the 35 cars can’t cope with their standard power on a standard chassis, there’s simply too much torque, plus all E89’s switch from understeer to oversteer mid corner due to the roof, so if you like giving cars a little bit of hoof be prepared for those issues, they can be tamed somewhat but quite frankly E89’s are pretty sloppy and 35 cars are not suited to their power without mods, even with mods they’re wayward, pop some chassis mods in there and use the standard power, there’s more than enough, me, you and a dog named boo are not good enough to use standard 35 power, plus the laws of physics can’t be argued with and you’ll be hanging from a tree if you try too hard in one. If you don’t generally give cars some stick then you’ll be ok….ish…. :lol: But don’t be put off, they’re flawed but epic cars, their cruisabitlity is brilliant, it’ll be a sad day when I don’t have one.

Anyway hope you come to a decision and you’re happy with what you get beit whatever that is.

 

[Mr Tidy]

It's just a thought but if you could live with an earlier model a 30i might fit the bill.

You get a 6 cylinder sound-track and the pretty bullet-proof N52 engine with similar power to a 28i. My first 2 E86s had the N52 and I liked it so much I'm now on my 4th in my 3 Series daily.

 

[B21]

Welcome..

What’s your likely budget?

Are you a DIY type mechanic or a ‘take it to a dealer’ type person?

What are other cars that take your fancy?

May help shape replies..

 

[clifford72]

Hey Clifford

Tbh I found the 4 pot cars even more unbalanced than the 6 pot, there’s approx 100kg difference, and with the back end already coping with a top heavy roof the lighter front felt made it even worse, so personally I much prefer the N54.

You’re also forced into forum scaremongering with places like these, you hear the issues all day long but you don’t hear how many cars not involved on forums, or that don’t have issues being talked about. Sure the 35 series cars have issues, but as I say you don’t hear the whole story of them as an average, so take some of what you hear with a pinch of salt, they don’t all suffer. I’ve had approx 7 35 cars, 6 35is’s and one 35i, the 35i is currently on 119K miles and pulls like a train, close your eyes and you’d not believe it wasn’t a couple of years old. Neither have I had any engine problems with any of them, not one, with mileage ranging from brand new to 119k miles, and pretty much everything in between. I’m not suggesting there aren’t issues, but don’t be put off a car that you really want due to forum paranoia is my opinion.

One thing to be aware of again imo, is the 35 cars can’t cope with their standard power on a standard chassis, there’s simply too much torque, plus all E89’s switch from understeer to oversteer mid corner due to the roof, so if you like giving cars a little bit of hoof be prepared for those issues, they can be tamed somewhat but quite frankly E89’s are pretty sloppy and 35 cars are not suited to their power without mods, even with mods they’re wayward, pop some chassis mods in there and use the standard power, there’s more than enough, me, you and a dog named boo are not good enough to use standard 35 power, plus the laws of physics can’t be argued with and you’ll be hanging from a tree if you try too hard in one. If you don’t generally give cars some stick then you’ll be ok….ish…. :lol: But don’t be put off, they’re flawed but epic cars, their cruisabitlity is brilliant, it’ll be a sad day when I don’t have one.

Anyway hope you come to a decision and you’re happy with what you get beit whatever that is.

Great advice. Thanks John.

Good to hear of the many miles of trouble free 6 pot ownership. Good point on the weight distribution too - I'd not considered that. 100kg is quite the difference and your point about offsetting the weight of the roof mechanism at the tail is one I'd not yet considered.

Thanks for the guidance.

 

[clifford72]

It's just a thought but if you could live with an earlier model a 30i might fit the bill.

You get a 6 cylinder sound-track and the pretty bullet-proof N52 engine with similar power to a 28i. My first 2 E86s had the N52 and I liked it so much I'm now on my 4th in my 3 Series daily.

I was put off by the age of the 30i's, but given the small number of changes after the 2013 'facelift', I'm probably missing a good option there. As you say, don't write off the thought.

 

[clifford72]

Welcome..

What’s your likely budget?

Are you a DIY type mechanic or a ‘take it to a dealer’ type person?

What are other cars that take your fancy?

May help shape replies..

Thanks!

Good question on budget. It appears low mileage, well kept cares are holding their price better than I imagined they would when I first started looking. There was a lovely Deep Sea Blue, low mileage 35i that sold from a BMW dealer in Bury St Edmonds a month or so ago for almost 20k, which raised my eyebrows! It feels like I'm going to need somewhere in the range of 10 - 18 to get a lower mileage, well cared for example, depending on spec, private sale vs dealer with warranty etc.

There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of 35i and 35is cars available, so I guess that doesn't help. Less when you start to get picky about colour schemes. Then there's the cost to consider of scrapping any run flats and get a decent set of boots on it, if not already fitted.

I'm 50/50 on the DIY mechanic side. I work a lot on motorcycles, and would do basic work myself - fluids / brakes etc. But I'm not about to drop an engine and change a timing chain. For some reason I've always enjoyed fettling with motorcycles, but found cars more of a chore. Not sure why.

Other cars to consider - I think if you want a hard top convertible, two seater that can cruise long distances, with some luggage capacity and a bit of performance for fun days, for under £20k, then options are pretty limited right? Maybe an SLK, but it can't hold a flame to a Z4 in the looks department IMHO.

 

[craigdm]

Hi Clifford,

I'm considering selling my much loved car in the near future (Waiting for some nice weather to take some decent pictures!)

20i M Sport but remapped to 28i specification (270-280bhp).

Auto in Melbourne Red with a black interior and brand new black MAK (Italy) alloy wheels and tyres.
I-Drive screen
Heated Seats
Parking Sensors (Front & Rear)
60K Miles, fully stamped service history (Early main dealer, then independent BMW specialist)

We have a grandson on the way and I'm told I have to get 'a proper car' !

 

[Silverstar]

It's just a thought but if you could live with an earlier model a 30i might fit the bill.

You get a 6 cylinder sound-track and the pretty bullet-proof N52 engine with similar power to a 28i. My first 2 E86s had the N52 and I liked it so much I'm now on my 4th in my 3 Series daily.

I was put off by the age of the 30i's, but given the small number of changes after the 2013 'facelift', I'm probably missing a good option there. As you say, don't write off the thought.

I wouldn't be, find a 30i with low miles (20k or 30k ish) and one that has been well looked after and I doubt you will notice any difference to something a bit newer. The LCI didn't really bring much change to these cars so you won't be missing out on that front either and as indicated these N52 are very reliable and have enough power to enjoy in this chassis.

I have had mine which is a 2009 car now over four years and 25k miles later it hasn't skipped a beat and mine wasn't even the best looked after example by the last owner although it is now! If you want to consider a 30i look for one of the last made examples around 2011 or 2012 with low miles well looked after and you will have yourself a gem!

Finally consider the numbers of cars available 30i 35i or 35is are in low numbers compared to the N20 4 pot cars (or also the lower powered N52 23i) which will have a bearing on future values.

 

[tiglon]

I would agree with John regarding 35i/is engine reliability. Plenty of scare stories out there, but I've had almost 3 years of trouble free motoring with mine. The usual occasional coil issues etc, but nothing you won't get on every single BMW engine. Sure, big things can go wrong, but not as often as the internet will have you believe.

I'd also agree on the chassis vs power, to a point - it handles it fine if you're driving it like a GT, but driving it on the edge is going to be a challenge. But, it doesn't sound like you're a "ten tenths" kind of driver, and neither am I.

If you do look at 30i's, I'd recommend avoiding the SE suspension, because then it really does fall apart. Comparable with a Mercedes V250d that I used to drive regularly. To be honest, a 30i with a decent set of Bilsteins would probably be a great balance of power/fun vs cost.

 

[B21]

Welcome..

What’s your likely budget?

Are you a DIY type mechanic or a ‘take it to a dealer’ type person?

What are other cars that take your fancy?

May help shape replies..

Thanks!

Good question on budget. It appears low mileage, well kept cares are holding their price better than I imagined they would when I first started looking. There was a lovely Deep Sea Blue, low mileage 35i that sold from a BMW dealer in Bury St Edmonds a month or so ago for almost 20k, which raised my eyebrows! It feels like I'm going to need somewhere in the range of 10 - 18 to get a lower mileage, well cared for example, depending on spec, private sale vs dealer with warranty etc.

There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of 35i and 35is cars available, so I guess that doesn't help. Less when you start to get picky about colour schemes. Then there's the cost to consider of scrapping any run flats and get a decent set of boots on it, if not already fitted.

I'm 50/50 on the DIY mechanic side. I work a lot on motorcycles, and would do basic work myself - fluids / brakes etc. But I'm not about to drop an engine and change a timing chain. For some reason I've always enjoyed fettling with motorcycles, but found cars more of a chore. Not sure why.

Other cars to consider - I think if you want a hard top convertible, two seater that can cruise long distances, with some luggage capacity and a bit of performance for fun days, for under £20k, then options are pretty limited right? Maybe an SLK, but it can't hold a flame to a Z4 in the looks department IMHO.

As you can see you can get as many views as there are members on this forum..

I never twiddled with cars until I got my first Zed…I had 22 bikes over a 40 year period with quite a lot of modest twiddling.

For your stated requirements almost any E89 would do well.

Your budget seems very wide ?

Low mileage E89 command a disproportionate premium which given how E89s shrug mileage off is interesting.

Ideally if you are not in a rush a few test drives would help to see how each flavour of E89s feels to you.

Less than 10% of E89s were 35i/35is in the UK..the vast majority were 23i or 20i.

I had a 20i which I had for 4 years and did 30k miles with the vast majority of those miles in long distance mode mostly with a variety of other Zeds.

I have a 35is now that I’ve done 20k+ miles over the last 3 years.

I know two posters have given positive accounts on the 35i.35is but my personal experience was not so positive although no way as bad as some..several forum members have racked up multi thousand expenditures on 35i/35is which simply does not occur on any of the others versions.

If an auto is preferred the 20i/28i with its ZF8HP box is a real gem. There are very few 28i..the majority were 20i.

If you feel the need for more go than a stock 20i gives you can get people to load a 28i ECU map or better as each of the 18i/20i/28i power trains are identical.

Pre 2015 N20 engined cars have an early camchain that gives trouble in some cases..about £1k sees that fixed preemptively.

Good hunting..

 

[clifford72]

Hi Clifford,

I'm considering selling my much loved car in the near future (Waiting for some nice weather to take some decent pictures!)

20i M Sport but remapped to 28i specification (270-280bhp).

Auto in Melbourne Red with a black interior and brand new black MAK (Italy) alloy wheels and tyres.
I-Drive screen
Heated Seats
Parking Sensors (Front & Rear)
60K Miles, fully stamped service history (Early main dealer, then independent BMW specialist)

We have a grandson on the way and I'm told I have to get 'a proper car' !

Hi! Congratulations on your new grandson news!

Sadly, red is a colour I'm not especially fond of, although I must say, it is a far more fetching on the Zed than anything else for sure.

From what you say, I can't imagine you'll have a hard time selling it.

Mind you, you could keep it... give it 6 years or so and your grandson will be thrilled to be taken out in a convertible - I speak from personal experience on the grandson perspective. Many happy memeories.

Best of luck with your sale and your new family member!

 

[clifford72]

I would agree with John regarding 35i/is engine reliability. Plenty of scare stories out there, but I've had almost 3 years of trouble free motoring with mine. The usual occasional coil issues etc, but nothing you won't get on every single BMW engine. Sure, big things can go wrong, but not as often as the internet will have you believe.

I'd also agree on the chassis vs power, to a point - it handles it fine if you're driving it like a GT, but driving it on the edge is going to be a challenge. But, it doesn't sound like you're a "ten tenths" kind of driver, and neither am I.

If you do look at 30i's, I'd recommend avoiding the SE suspension, because then it really does fall apart. Comparable with a Mercedes V250d that I used to drive regularly. To be honest, a 30i with a decent set of Bilsteins would probably be a great balance of power/fun vs cost.

All great advice - thank you.

Not a "ten tenths" driver for sure, I would say I save that for the bike, but I'm not sure I even do that these days!

 

[clifford72]

As you can see you can get as many views as there are members on this forum..

I never twiddled with cars until I got my first Zed…I had 22 bikes over a 40 year period with quite a lot of modest twiddling.

For your stated requirements almost any E89 would do well.

Your budget seems very wide ?

Low mileage E89 command a disproportionate premium which given how E89s shrug mileage off is interesting.

Ideally if you are not in a rush a few test drives would help to see how each flavour of E89s feels to you.

Less than 10% of E89s were 35i/35is in the UK..the vast majority were 23i or 20i.

I had a 20i which I had for 4 years and did 30k miles with the vast majority of those miles in long distance mode mostly with a variety of other Zeds.

I have a 35is now that I’ve done 20k+ miles over the last 3 years.

I know two posters have given positive accounts on the 35i.35is but my personal experience was not so positive although no way as bad as some..several forum members have racked up multi thousand expenditures on 35i/35is which simply does not occur on any of the others versions.

If an auto is preferred the 20i/28i with its ZF8HP box is a real gem. There are very few 28i..the majority were 20i.

If you feel the need for more go than a stock 20i gives you can get people to load a 28i ECU map or better as each of the 18i/20i/28i power trains are identical.

Pre 2015 N20 engined cars have an early camchain that gives trouble in some cases..about £1k sees that fixed preemptively.

Good hunting..

I didn't realise an 18i or a 20i could be brought up to a 28i as simply as a ECU tune. That might help widen the search because as you say, 35's seem harder to come buy.

Noted on the 8 speed gearbox, and timing chain guides update from 2015 too.

All really helpful knowledge - thank you.

 

[john-e89]

Check out the ‘Me and my 30i’ post from Big bad boris in the E89 section Clifford….a hell of a shame for him on a couple of levels but could be just your golden ticket…

 

[Paul_S]

I've got a 2012 deep sea blue 28i that I was thinking I may sell in the spring.
Drop me a PM if you'd like to have a chat.
Based in south east london

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Check out the ‘Me and my 30i’ post from Big bad boris in the E89 section Clifford….a hell of a shame for him on a couple of levels but could be just your golden ticket…

Thanks John. Clifford I have recently taken the logical step of moving my post into the For Sale section, if you are between London and Cambridge you are probably not that far from me, if you wanted to have a look, I am about 20 mins from Stansted… in Braintree. Feel free to PM me if you have questions etc.