E89 18i 20i 28i

[coldel]

OK here goes ... Ive been reading various threads but also scanning YT and other resources but hey wanted to pull all my questions together in once place as I do think I am going to get one of the above

1. As I understand it it is the same N20 engine in each car, each can be tuned to similar power and torque levels, circa 260-270 peak BHP is typical which is within tolerances, is that correct?
2. Looking online Celtic Turning, Phantom and Evolve seem to have lots of reviews (mostly positive) in terms of picking a tuner, I would want a proper remap not a generic plug and play, any other major players I am missing?
3. Is the iDrive worth it? I have looked and seen you can get units that plug in behind them for adding carplay which looks a great option, is there an option to do a full digital install if the car doesn't have any iDrive installed? Ive seen random units on AliExpress etc. but reviews said they came without instructions!
4. I had really convinced myself that I need an auto as the E89 is more of a touring/GT car than my previous E85/86. But that means disregarding more than half the cars on sale, is the manual any good, does it suit the cars driving dynamic?
5. The cars seemed to have a facelift in 2014 (where you can identify them with the chrome swoosh on the side) is this when the chain guides were upgraded? It seems this was a big weak point and a must do on pre face lift cars, how much does this generally cost, is it doable by ourselves on the drive?

Sorry, appreciate its a chunky list of questions but any earned wisdom passed on would be appreciated.

 

[B21]

1. As I understand it it is the same N20 engine in each car, each can be tuned to similar power and torque levels, circa 260-270 peak BHP is typical which is within tolerances, is that correct?

Correct,,however later N20s with electronic waste gate control for the turbo fair better..generally..post 2013..when w elooked we had a range from around 250 ish to 295 ish..plus later ones around 2015 had a better HPFP which can be retrofitted which gives more headromm for a proper tune..


2. Looking online Celtic Turning, Phantom and Evolve seem to have lots of reviews (mostly positive) in terms of picking a tuner, I would want a proper remap not a generic plug and play, any other major players I am missing?

Good idea..depends where you live?


3. Is the iDrive worth it? I have looked and seen you can get units that plug in behind them for adding carplay which looks a great option, is there an option to do a full digital install if the car doesn't have any iDrive installed? Ive seen random units on AliExpress etc. but reviews said they came without instructions!

iDrive is great and with Carplay its as good as any modern unit..but..prohibitively expensive to fit..

Other option is a decent Android head unti which can support car play which most these days do!

4. I had really convinced myself that I need an auto as the E89 is more of a touring/GT car than my previous E85/86. But that means disregarding more than half the cars on sale, is the manual any good, does it suit the cars driving dynamic?

The auto is great..I've now driven a couple of re-mapped N20s that are manual and for me can't work out why you would want it..maybe in an N52.. especially with a re-map..but if you want to stir the box then a manual works well since the torque range is so broad..but pointless chasing it to the redline as the N20 runs out of puff on a stock turbo..



5. The cars seemed to have a facelift in 2014 (where you can identify them with the chrome swoosh on the side) is this when the chain guides were upgraded? It seems this was a big weak point and a must do on pre face lift cars, how much does this generally cost, is it doable by ourselves on the drive?

2013 MY was the facelift..the camchain (and various other engine bits) were revised in early 2015..its about a £1k-£1.5k job inc labour,,buying parts direct not from BMW..no way is it do-able by most mortals..lots of special tools required..

 

[Fady]

OK here goes ... Ive been reading various threads but also scanning YT and other resources but hey wanted to pull all my questions together in once place as I do think I am going to get one of the above

1. As I understand it it is the same N20 engine in each car, each can be tuned to similar power and torque levels, circa 260-270 peak BHP is typical which is within tolerances, is that correct?
2. Looking online Celtic Turning, Phantom and Evolve seem to have lots of reviews (mostly positive) in terms of picking a tuner, I would want a proper remap not a generic plug and play, any other major players I am missing?
3. Is the iDrive worth it? I have looked and seen you can get units that plug in behind them for adding carplay which looks a great option, is there an option to do a full digital install if the car doesn't have any iDrive installed? Ive seen random units on AliExpress etc. but reviews said they came without instructions!
4. I had really convinced myself that I need an auto as the E89 is more of a touring/GT car than my previous E85/86. But that means disregarding more than half the cars on sale, is the manual any good, does it suit the cars driving dynamic?
5. The cars seemed to have a facelift in 2014 (where you can identify them with the chrome swoosh on the side) is this when the chain guides were upgraded? It seems this was a big weak point and a must do on pre face lift cars, how much does this generally cost, is it doable by ourselves on the drive?

Sorry, appreciate its a chunky list of questions but any earned wisdom passed on would be appreciated.

My responses to the above would be:
1. I am not into tuning (personally, would just get a faster car as needed) but understand that the 28i can be tuned to ever so slightly higher than the others
2. See answer to 1.
3. A matter of personal preference IMHO. Prefer the OEM look and the iDrive matches my own requirements just as it is. Whenever I buy a car, I always want as many toys out of the box (as I do have as waited for the right car to come up), so was always a must have for me but as you are aware there are a multitude of aftermarket options.
4. Again a matter of personal preference. In contrast to you, I was only ever going to buy a manual. Seems to be a 50-50 auto/manual split for E89s in general however note that if you start considering other options like iDrive, parking sensors, heated seats, upgraded speakers etc. then you are looking at fewer and fewer cars.
5. Facelift was in 2013. Swoosh on the side easy to add (done to my 2012 by previous owner). Chain guide updated in 2015. Getting bored of hearing that any N20 engine will implode just by looking at it! Millions of units on the road and most owners who are not car people are oblivious to this potential defect and just drive. More economical, better bang for buck and cheaper to insure. The way I look at it is - if it happens, it happens and that it is possible but unlikely. Just enjoying my car and not losing sleep over it, as again, there are lots of other things that can go wrong that might be equally costly.

Others will be along to give there equally valid opinions

 

[Pondy]

Just to add: facelift was from early 2013. 18i was introduced then so no pre-facelift 18i.
Only noticeable updates were LED DRLs and funky side indicators.

The camchain 'facelift' is under debate. B21 reckons the camchain guides were updated in early 2015, however, I'm sure my latest E89 has the old camchain guides and was built very late 2015, so not sure.

My experiences with N20 Z4s.....

First was a 2013 18i with a decent spec but no iDrive. Had it mapped by Superchips to circa 270bhp and 350nm (on normal E10) and was awesome.

Latest is a 2016 20i with a slightly better spec and iDrive. Not had it mapped.

Of the two I would have the 18i any day of the week. The iDrive isn't worth having IMO and the lack of remap makes it a boring car. My wife would swap back to the 18i we had in a heartbeat.

My advice would be find a decent spec 18i (which will be cheaper than any equivalent 20i or 28i) and get it mapped. And if it bothers you, take the signage off the wings!

 

[IRD]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

 

[B21]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

A 35is is about 130kgs heavier than a 20i... the front wheels are carrying about 95 kgs more weight..a lot in front of the front axle..so with basically the same running gear its no surprise...I was shocked at how poor the 35is was after my little 20i...

 

[Pondy]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

It is very strange, as on paper (apart from the engine map) the two should be near identical, but for reasons that neither I, nor the wife, can explain, the little white 18i is just a better car.
Both have similar mileage, both have the same service history, both are the same spec (almost) and yet the one which is 3 years older is just better.

 

[IRD]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

A 35is is about 130kgs heavier than a 20i... the front wheels are carrying about 95 kgs more weight..a lot in front of the front axle..so with basically the same running gear its no surprise...I was shocked at how poor the 35is was after my little 20i...

In a straight line it was very quick. But I wasn’t a good enough driver to manage it comfortably at speed on narrow twisty roads. I find the little 2 litre easier and more fun to drive.

 

[B21]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

A 35is is about 130kgs heavier than a 20i... the front wheels are carrying about 95 kgs more weight..a lot in front of the front axle..so with basically the same running gear its no surprise...I was shocked at how poor the 35is was after my little 20i...

In a straight line it was very quick. But I wasn’t a good enough driver to manage it comfortably at speed on narrow twisty roads. I find the little 2 litre easier and more fun to drive.

Yup its taken a lot of work to make it less wayward..

 

[IRD]

I now own Pondrew’s original white E89 and have done for a while now. I can vouch for the fact that it is plenty quick enough with the re-map and I speak from the experience of having previously owned a 3.5is.
I am very happy with my car and do find that it handles better than the bigger engined 3.5is. What I do miss is that 6 cylinder growl.

It is very strange, as on paper (apart from the engine map) the two should be near identical, but for reasons that neither I, nor the wife, can explain, the little white 18i is just a better car.
Both have similar mileage, both have the same service history, both are the same spec (almost) and yet the one which is 3 years older is just better.

It has certainly proved to be one of the most enjoyable cars I have owned Andy. It is a pleasure to drive and every time I walk away from it I still look back with pleasure at the shape of the E89.

 

[coldel]

Sorry had a manic yesterday...but thanks for all the feedback, really good to have owner experiences on there too.

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift and if the facelift had a more reliable engine (in the same way you have a 987 and a 987.2 Cayman for instance). The chain guides I read are by design going to fail, so when rather than if, so was wondering if its a worthwhile bit of maintenance as I will be spending up to around 10k on a car which will probably have around 50-80k miles on it.

Note: I do have a dad and brother who are both car mechanics who have tens of thousands of pounds worth of tools who do all my big jobs on my cars such as clutch changes etc. so was wondering if that would help, was it really that specialist a job.

I definitely will remap it, seems mad not to given the 28i output. In terms of my location I am in SW London near Twickenham right by the M3 so easy exit route from London.

I was thinking Auto because I am sick and tired of London driving in a manual, they just put in a shed load of roadworks on the A316 near me for the next 8 months and that was the last straw for me for manuals

 

[Pondy]

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift

They are easy to change, so some pre-facelifts will have the newer side indicators. Basically, anything registered on a '13' plate or newer should be a facelift.

 

[enuff_zed]

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift

They are easy to change, so some pre-facelifts will have the newer side indicators. Basically, anything registered on a '13' plate or newer should be a facelift.

Am I right in thinking another way to tell is if the headlight halos are yellow or white?

 

[Pondy]

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift

They are easy to change, so some pre-facelifts will have the newer side indicators. Basically, anything registered on a '13' plate or newer should be a facelift.

Am I right in thinking another way to tell is if the headlight halos are yellow or white?

Yep. The facelifts got LED halos (DRLs) which are white. Maybe Coldel was thinking of how to identify them from a picture in an advert, so the side repeaters are easy to spot. :?

 

[coldel]

They are easy to change, so some pre-facelifts will have the newer side indicators. Basically, anything registered on a '13' plate or newer should be a facelift.

Am I right in thinking another way to tell is if the headlight halos are yellow or white?

Yep. The facelifts got LED halos (DRLs) which are white. Maybe Coldel was thinking of how to identify them from a picture in an advert, so the side repeaters are easy to spot. :?

Yes exactly that, when browsing ads I wanted an easy way to spot a facelift

 

[B21]

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift

They are easy to change, so some pre-facelifts will have the newer side indicators. Basically, anything registered on a '13' plate or newer should be a facelift.

Am I right in thinking another way to tell is if the headlight halos are yellow or white?

Er no…lots of folks have now fitted LEDs to the DRLs so they are all bright white too…

 

[B21]

Sorry had a manic yesterday...but thanks for all the feedback, really good to have owner experiences on there too.

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift and if the facelift had a more reliable engine (in the same way you have a 987 and a 987.2 Cayman for instance). The chain guides I read are by design going to fail, so when rather than if, so was wondering if its a worthwhile bit of maintenance as I will be spending up to around 10k on a car which will probably have around 50-80k miles on it.

Note: I do have a dad and brother who are both car mechanics who have tens of thousands of pounds worth of tools who do all my big jobs on my cars such as clutch changes etc. so was wondering if that would help, was it really that specialist a job.

I definitely will remap it, seems mad not to given the 28i output. In terms of my location I am in SW London near Twickenham right by the M3 so easy exit route from London.

I was thinking Auto because I am sick and tired of London driving in a manual, they just put in a shed load of roadworks on the A316 near me for the next 8 months and that was the last straw for me for manuals

The issue is the specfic special tools which are quite pricey..not the competence of the engineers…


Here you go..

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-to-replace-the-bmw-n20-timing-chain-part-1-removal


https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-n20-n26-timing-chain-kit-11318648732kt

 

[coldel]

Sorry had a manic yesterday...but thanks for all the feedback, really good to have owner experiences on there too.

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift and if the facelift had a more reliable engine (in the same way you have a 987 and a 987.2 Cayman for instance). The chain guides I read are by design going to fail, so when rather than if, so was wondering if its a worthwhile bit of maintenance as I will be spending up to around 10k on a car which will probably have around 50-80k miles on it.

Note: I do have a dad and brother who are both car mechanics who have tens of thousands of pounds worth of tools who do all my big jobs on my cars such as clutch changes etc. so was wondering if that would help, was it really that specialist a job.

I definitely will remap it, seems mad not to given the 28i output. In terms of my location I am in SW London near Twickenham right by the M3 so easy exit route from London.

I was thinking Auto because I am sick and tired of London driving in a manual, they just put in a shed load of roadworks on the A316 near me for the next 8 months and that was the last straw for me for manuals

The issue is the specfic special tools which are quite pricey..not the competence of the engineers…


Here you go..

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-to-replace-the-bmw-n20-timing-chain-part-1-removal


https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-n20-n26-timing-chain-kit-11318648732kt

Cheers. My guys should be able to get hold of the specific tools from BMW guys they know no problem for the job. But wow 800 'bucks' for a timing chain kit

 

[B21]

Sorry had a manic yesterday...but thanks for all the feedback, really good to have owner experiences on there too.

So yes for the facelift I dont actually like the swoosh but it was more of an identifier to know a facelift from a non facelift and if the facelift had a more reliable engine (in the same way you have a 987 and a 987.2 Cayman for instance). The chain guides I read are by design going to fail, so when rather than if, so was wondering if its a worthwhile bit of maintenance as I will be spending up to around 10k on a car which will probably have around 50-80k miles on it.

Note: I do have a dad and brother who are both car mechanics who have tens of thousands of pounds worth of tools who do all my big jobs on my cars such as clutch changes etc. so was wondering if that would help, was it really that specialist a job.

I definitely will remap it, seems mad not to given the 28i output. In terms of my location I am in SW London near Twickenham right by the M3 so easy exit route from London.

I was thinking Auto because I am sick and tired of London driving in a manual, they just put in a shed load of roadworks on the A316 near me for the next 8 months and that was the last straw for me for manuals

The issue is the specfic special tools which are quite pricey..not the competence of the engineers…


Here you go..

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-to-replace-the-bmw-n20-timing-chain-part-1-removal


https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-n20-n26-timing-chain-kit-11318648732kt

Cheers. My guys should be able to get hold of the specific tools from BMW guys they know no problem for the job. But wow 800 'bucks' for a timing chain kit

You should be able to source it cheaper..major part here for £250

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/spares-search?makerId=16&modelId=8033&carId=11889&keyword=11312457622

If you can find it the Febi Bilstein version IS the BMW OE version with BMW logos ground off..

Theres the oil pump drive, cam chain tensioner and crank sprocket as part of the 'final solution'!

 

[coldel]

How many of you have actually done the chain guide as a preventative measure?
Is there a typical mileage they tend to start to show signs of failing at?

Thanks for all the responses by the way ... it is really appreciated.