E86 value - have they got it wrong?

[STC_Zed]

Yeah, he was a good guy to deal with. I’d happily buy another car from him in the future. He was happy to negotiate too which was a refreshing change for a dealer.

Does he offer a warranty? Is he a trader from a buyer protection point of view (I'm not an expert but "presumably" and "he should be" seem to be correct)

I'd perhaps argue that you are paying, say, £10k.... £9,000 for a car and £1,000 for everything else - warranty, service, peace of mind, proper valeting, detailing, knowing that pretty much everything has been looked at and there's not a list of minor things to do before you even start driving it... in some or many cases that extra £1k could be a complete bargain.

Yes he does, although as part of the negotiation on price I sacked it off because I’m generally suspicious of third party warranties never having had a good experience. I tend to tackle issues myself as well, so it holds little value to me. He was also very open about what he’d spent on the car and the invoice for an oil change, new rocker cover gasket, oil filter gasket, oil cooler gasket and brake calliper is in the history of the car.

 

[Beerman]

Yeah, he was a good guy to deal with. I’d happily buy another car from him in the future. He was happy to negotiate too which was a refreshing change for a dealer.

Does he offer a warranty? Is he a trader from a buyer protection point of view (I'm not an expert but "presumably" and "he should be" seem to be correct)

I'd perhaps argue that you are paying, say, £10k.... £9,000 for a car and £1,000 for everything else - warranty, service, peace of mind, proper valeting, detailing, knowing that pretty much everything has been looked at and there's not a list of minor things to do before you even start driving it... in some or many cases that extra £1k could be a complete bargain.

Yes he does, although as part of the negotiation on price I sacked it off because I’m generally suspicious of third party warranties never having had a good experience. I tend to tackle issues myself as well, so it holds little value to me. He was also very open about what he’d spent on the car and the invoice for an oil change, new rocker cover gasket, oil filter gasket, oil cooler gasket and brake calliper is in the history of the car.

He offers a 3 month nationwide warranty on his cars.

I agree that third party warranties are often poor and especially on older cars. Lots of things are automatically excluded. However, if a car develops a fault within 6 months it's the dealer who is liable.

Too often dealers sell cars and hide behind poor warranties to evade their legal responsibility.

I think his cars are too highly priced. It looks like he is doing well with big profit margins selling Z4s.

 

[STC_Zed]

Does he offer a warranty? Is he a trader from a buyer protection point of view (I'm not an expert but "presumably" and "he should be" seem to be correct)

I'd perhaps argue that you are paying, say, £10k.... £9,000 for a car and £1,000 for everything else - warranty, service, peace of mind, proper valeting, detailing, knowing that pretty much everything has been looked at and there's not a list of minor things to do before you even start driving it... in some or many cases that extra £1k could be a complete bargain.

Yes he does, although as part of the negotiation on price I sacked it off because I’m generally suspicious of third party warranties never having had a good experience. I tend to tackle issues myself as well, so it holds little value to me. He was also very open about what he’d spent on the car and the invoice for an oil change, new rocker cover gasket, oil filter gasket, oil cooler gasket and brake calliper is in the history of the car.

He offers a 3 month nationwide warranty on his cars.

I agree that third party warranties are often poor and especially on older cars. Lots of things are automatically excluded. However, if a car develops a fault within 6 months it's the dealer who is liable.

Too often dealers sell cars and hide behind poor warranties to evade their legal responsibility.

I think his cars are too highly priced. It looks like he is doing well with big profit margins selling Z4s.

His cars are in the higher side although I negotiated what I felt was a fair discount. He’s spent over a grand on it, so I’m guessing that he didn’t pay that much for it to still be able to make a profit.

It’s also worth noting that his cars don’t seem to sit around for too long, so he’s clearly doing something right.

 

[pvr]

High price compared to what though?

I would rather buy from a specialist who knows the car that some big outlet that just box shifts them straight from auction.

 

[Beerman]

Yes he does, although as part of the negotiation on price I sacked it off because I’m generally suspicious of third party warranties never having had a good experience. I tend to tackle issues myself as well, so it holds little value to me. He was also very open about what he’d spent on the car and the invoice for an oil change, new rocker cover gasket, oil filter gasket, oil cooler gasket and brake calliper is in the history of the car.

He offers a 3 month nationwide warranty on his cars.

I agree that third party warranties are often poor and especially on older cars. Lots of things are automatically excluded. However, if a car develops a fault within 6 months it's the dealer who is liable.

Too often dealers sell cars and hide behind poor warranties to evade their legal responsibility.

I think his cars are too highly priced. It looks like he is doing well with big profit margins selling Z4s.

His cars are in the higher side although I negotiated what I felt was a fair discount. He’s spent over a grand on it, so I’m guessing that he didn’t pay that much for it to still be able to make a profit.

It’s also worth noting that his cars don’t seem to sit around for too long, so he’s clearly doing something right.

I'm sure he's picked up cars from this forum when they've not sold on here. I think he's specialised in the Z4 due to the profit margins he's able to get.

I've encountered this same situation on other forums. People buy into things like future classic and values are only going one way. A couple of dealers earn a good reputation as specialists and command good prices for their cars. People are willing to pay a huge premium for a trusted seller.

When it comes to selling they start questioning why they are struggling to sell their car.

Nearly all dealers will go on book value. If you pay a premium over book valuations when it comes to selling you either take a huge hit, or you'll struggle to sell.

The car market is slow just now as too many people are still trying to hold out for high prices that were artificially inflated during coronavirus.

 

[STC_Zed]

He offers a 3 month nationwide warranty on his cars.

I agree that third party warranties are often poor and especially on older cars. Lots of things are automatically excluded. However, if a car develops a fault within 6 months it's the dealer who is liable.

Too often dealers sell cars and hide behind poor warranties to evade their legal responsibility.

I think his cars are too highly priced. It looks like he is doing well with big profit margins selling Z4s.

His cars are in the higher side although I negotiated what I felt was a fair discount. He’s spent over a grand on it, so I’m guessing that he didn’t pay that much for it to still be able to make a profit.

It’s also worth noting that his cars don’t seem to sit around for too long, so he’s clearly doing something right.

I'm sure he's picked up cars from this forum when they've not sold on here. I think he's specialised in the Z4 due to the profit margins he's able to get.

I've encountered this same situation on other forums. People buy into things like future classic and values are only going one way. A couple of dealers earn a good reputation as specialists and command good prices for their cars. People are willing to pay a huge premium for a trusted seller.

When it comes to selling they start questioning why they are struggling to sell their car.

Nearly all dealers will go on book value. If you pay a premium over book valuations when it comes to selling you either take a huge hit, or you'll struggle to sell.

The car market is slow just now as too many people are still trying to hold out for high prices that were artificially inflated during coronavirus.

I think the book valuations for many older, interesting cars are way off. I don’t see many Z4’s selling for what is considered the book value.

The pandemic did some funny things to the used car market (not all bad for me though….I was able to get out of an M140i that I didn’t like easily and with cash my way).

I’m not sure the Z4 will be a classic, not at least for many, many years yet because they made loads of them (especially roadsters). It’s going to take a long time for lots of the current cars to be killed off and reduce supply. Add in the fact that they’re not as highly regarded as say a Boxster.

 

[j3nks79]

Let me show you something. An example of a z4 3.0si manual going through auction this week. Look at the book price £1650. And I expect it to finish around that from what I’ve been watching for the last few months.
I’ve also been seeing coupes with 100k going through at less than £4K.

Not only these cars but 95% of cars have tanked. People are asking some crazy prices privately and they have been sitting on them for months. Just check out the sale section on here.
The market dictates the price and not the sellers.

 

[pvr]

The same price as the plastic side skirts :rofl:

On my insurance renewal, the suggested value was £2850 for my 3.0si.

 

[j3nks79]

The same price as the plastic side skirts :rofl:

Pretty crazy eh!?

 

[pvr]

The same price as the plastic side skirts :rofl:

Pretty crazy eh!?

Bonkers

 

[Fred Smith]

Let me show you something. An example of a z4 3.0si manual going through auction this week. Look at the book price £1650. And I expect it to finish around that from what I’ve been watching for the last few months.
I’ve also been seeing coupes with 100k going through at less than £4K.

Not only these cars but 95% of cars have tanked. People are asking some crazy prices privately and they have been sitting on them for months. Just check out the sale section on here.
The market dictates the price and not the sellers.
IMG_0534.png

Not being funny, but if I were a dealer then I'd look at an end price for a 100k roadster in good nick and work backwards.

Say, £4,000, less £1,000 profit, less £1000 for the extra 36k on the clock, less £1000 to £1,500 for repairs, cleaning, detailing, providing a warranty, fees. £500 to £1,000 is what I'd want to pay... dealers work on insanely low margins.

 

[enuff_zed]

Let me show you something. An example of a z4 3.0si manual going through auction this week. Look at the book price £1650. And I expect it to finish around that from what I’ve been watching for the last few months.
I’ve also been seeing coupes with 100k going through at less than £4K.

Not only these cars but 95% of cars have tanked. People are asking some crazy prices privately and they have been sitting on them for months. Just check out the sale section on here.
The market dictates the price and not the sellers.
IMG_0534.png

Not being funny, but if I were a dealer then I'd look at an end price for a 100k roadster in good nick and work backwards.

Say, £4,000, less £1,000 profit, less £1000 for the extra 36k on the clock, less £1000 to £1,500 for repairs, cleaning, detailing, providing a warranty, fees. £500 to £1,000 is what I'd want to pay... dealers work on insanely low margins.

And at that price it's worth much more in parts.

 

[j3nks79]

Let me show you something. An example of a z4 3.0si manual going through auction this week. Look at the book price £1650. And I expect it to finish around that from what I’ve been watching for the last few months.
I’ve also been seeing coupes with 100k going through at less than £4K.

Not only these cars but 95% of cars have tanked. People are asking some crazy prices privately and they have been sitting on them for months. Just check out the sale section on here.
The market dictates the price and not the sellers.
IMG_0534.png

Not being funny, but if I were a dealer then I'd look at an end price for a 100k roadster in good nick and work backwards.

Say, £4,000, less £1,000 profit, less £1000 for the extra 36k on the clock, less £1000 to £1,500 for repairs, cleaning, detailing, providing a warranty, fees. £500 to £1,000 is what I'd want to pay... dealers work on insanely low margins.

And at that price it's worth much more in parts.

I think we have reached a point now where a lot of these cars might start getting stripped for parts.

 

[j3nks79]

Let me show you something. An example of a z4 3.0si manual going through auction this week. Look at the book price £1650. And I expect it to finish around that from what I’ve been watching for the last few months.
I’ve also been seeing coupes with 100k going through at less than £4K.

Not only these cars but 95% of cars have tanked. People are asking some crazy prices privately and they have been sitting on them for months. Just check out the sale section on here.
The market dictates the price and not the sellers.
IMG_0534.png

Not being funny, but if I were a dealer then I'd look at an end price for a 100k roadster in good nick and work backwards.

Say, £4,000, less £1,000 profit, less £1000 for the extra 36k on the clock, less £1000 to £1,500 for repairs, cleaning, detailing, providing a warranty, fees. £500 to £1,000 is what I'd want to pay... dealers work on insanely low margins.

Mileage has already been adjusted in that price.
You couldn’t buy that car for £500-£1000.
If it was that simple everyone would be doing it.

 

[Fred Smith]

Mileage has already been adjusted in that price.
You couldn’t buy that car for £500-£1000.
If it was that simple everyone would be doing it.

The highest bidder is always going to be - a private buyer who wants the car, or the dealer who is prepared to work the smallest margin, or the dealer who can do all the work himself, or the dealer who will forge a service history to inflate the end price, or the biggest risk taker, or the idiot who thinks prices are where they were 6 months back.

I am on BCA and copart, and I would be buying cars to make a profit on if other people weren't more bullish than me.

 

[j3nks79]

Mileage has already been adjusted in that price.
You couldn’t buy that car for £500-£1000.
If it was that simple everyone would be doing it.

The highest bidder is always going to be - a private buyer who wants the car, or the dealer who is prepared to work the smallest margin, or the dealer who can do all the work himself, or the dealer who will forge a service history to inflate the end price, or the biggest risk taker, or the idiot who thinks prices are where they were 6 months back.

I am on BCA and copart, and I would be buying cars to make a profit on if other people weren't more bullish than me.

The difference is someone in the trade can prep that car for a quarter of would it would cost Joe public.

 

[Z450]

It’s interesting reading some of the comments etc. I feel there’s an opinion that most car traders are raking a fortune in and can get prep done for peanuts and have thousands in every car!

From working in the trade for the majority it’s sadly not true. To do this job well, look after your customers and prep cars well it leaves little margin. This is before you take into account trade insurance jumping up hugely, advertising costs, corporation tax, 20% VAT on any profit, rent etc..

As for Z4 values they have dropped with most other cars. Sometimes though I do feel we talk the price down, these are great cars so let’s talk the values up

 

[Fred Smith]

It’s interesting reading some of the comments etc. I feel there’s an opinion that most car traders are raking a fortune in and can get prep done for peanuts and have thousands in every car!

From working in the trade for the majority it’s sadly not true. To do this job well, look after your customers and prep cars well it leaves little margin. This is before you take into account trade insurance jumping up hugely, advertising costs, corporation tax, 20% VAT on any profit, rent etc..

As for Z4 values they have dropped with most other cars. Sometimes though I do feel we talk the price down, these are great cars so let’s talk the values up

That was what I was trying to get at. As a would-be amateur car trader I look at the auction market and things look expensive. My point of view is kinda "I know I won't get top top money when I come to sell, and I will have to pay retail for some repairs, but I can do lots of the work for free and am willing to work for a tiny margin, and I want to pay a lot less than the market is paying!"

Yes, dealers have low costs for repairs and detailing, but I just can't see how they're making a fair profit. I think it sums up our country - everything is tight, lots of people are struggling more than they should be.

 

[STC_Zed]

It’s interesting reading some of the comments etc. I feel there’s an opinion that most car traders are raking a fortune in and can get prep done for peanuts and have thousands in every car!

From working in the trade for the majority it’s sadly not true. To do this job well, look after your customers and prep cars well it leaves little margin. This is before you take into account trade insurance jumping up hugely, advertising costs, corporation tax, 20% VAT on any profit, rent etc..

As for Z4 values they have dropped with most other cars. Sometimes though I do feel we talk the price down, these are great cars so let’s talk the values up

That was what I was trying to get at. As a would-be amateur car trader I look at the auction market and things look expensive. My point of view is kinda "I know I won't get top top money when I come to sell, and I will have to pay retail for some repairs, but I can do lots of the work for free and am willing to work for a tiny margin, and I want to pay a lot less than the market is paying!"

Yes, dealers have low costs for repairs and detailing, but I just can't see how they're making a fair profit. I think it sums up our country - everything is tight, lots of people are struggling more than they should be.

They’ve got to be making enough though or they’d be going out of business. There is also a poor perception of dealers in the UK where most people distrust them.

 

[Z450]

It’s interesting reading some of the comments etc. I feel there’s an opinion that most car traders are raking a fortune in and can get prep done for peanuts and have thousands in every car!

From working in the trade for the majority it’s sadly not true. To do this job well, look after your customers and prep cars well it leaves little margin. This is before you take into account trade insurance jumping up hugely, advertising costs, corporation tax, 20% VAT on any profit, rent etc..

As for Z4 values they have dropped with most other cars. Sometimes though I do feel we talk the price down, these are great cars so let’s talk the values up

That was what I was trying to get at. As a would-be amateur car trader I look at the auction market and things look expensive. My point of view is kinda "I know I won't get top top money when I come to sell, and I will have to pay retail for some repairs, but I can do lots of the work for free and am willing to work for a tiny margin, and I want to pay a lot less than the market is paying!"

Yes, dealers have low costs for repairs and detailing, but I just can't see how they're making a fair profit. I think it sums up our country - everything is tight, lots of people are struggling more than they should be.

They’ve got to be making enough though or they’d be going out of business. There is also a poor perception of dealers in the UK where most people distrust them.

I agree they are making enough, as you say most would be going out of business, although a lot have gone out of business in the past 18 months.

The poor perception of dealers is a massive issue, obviously not all are bad but most people will have had an experience with a bad one at some point