E86 - stagnant market phase or normally slow?

I think there are the usual rules that apply...

The actual umber of owners is largely irrelevant. Often for sports cars, and more extreme sports cars like a Lotus ownership is a short one a year or two have some fun and move it on. What you should look for in ownership is the intervals, so if you see 5 owner car where the ownership over say 15 years is 3 years a piece then fine, if its 13 years first owner and then 4 owners over 2 years you need to think why.

Mileage, is definitely a UK thing, maybe island mentality. But also it is worth considering your usage, ownership costs and how long you intend to own it. Mileage is definitely not a proxy for condition, at all, but you shouldn't just ignore it. Low milers attract higher interest and generally are easier to sell on. Long term consumables on high milers come into the cost equation vs low milers.

I get the argument about short trips etc. on low milers but you could also argue that people with high milers just couldn't give too hoots about the car, they bought it cheap, its got loads of miles, lets jump in it and rag it then sell it on when done with it, is an equally likely scenario. You can go back and forth on this postulating.

It all comes back to condition, and what you want from the car. Get a high miler if you intend to use it and then sell it on with 30k extra miles on it, probably will cost less in the long run. If you want to keep it, go low mile and make it yours. Number of owners doesnt matter in the slightest just check the cadence of them (vcheck is a great check to do it lists dates changing of the V5). Look for hints of care and consideration, good matching tyres, all plastic parts in the engine bay present, do they clean the inside of the petrol flap!
 
Basically, i want to buy a car from myself :D

Never sit on the bolster of the seats, so no matter the miles the seats are new. Never have creasy mits so the steering wheel is as new, dont have rings except a wedding ring so the gearknob is as new. Warm up the car when driving, never use short journeys.
 
coldel said:
Mileage is definitely not a proxy for condition, at all, but you shouldn't just ignore it. Low milers attract higher interest and generally are easier to sell on.
Very true. And ironically the lower-miles cars can be cheaper to own for this reason, even if they are more expensive to buy. If you buy a higher-miles car you should absolutely factor that into the purchase price.
 
mattimus said:
I've been looking for / watching E86s now for a good few months but it seems to be the same old dozen or so in my budget hanging around with very few new ones appearing.

I sold my old car to a forum member that posted a wanted ad. I never listed it for sale.
 
pvr said:
Basically, i want to buy a car from myself :D

Never sit on the bolster of the seats, so no matter the miles the seats are new. Never have creasy mits so the steering wheel is as new, dont have rings except a wedding ring so the gearknob is as new. Warm up the car when driving, never use short journeys.
Good to know you never sit on the side of the seat with your greasy ring. :thumbsup: :D
 
M1k3yC said:
I sold my old car to a forum member that posted a wanted ad. I never listed it for sale.

That's exactly how I sold my first Z4 too.

As far as mileage is concerned I don't think it is much of an issue with N52 engines. My current daily 330i has a 120Kmile N52 and it replaced an E91 325i (also an N52) that had done 139K. Both engines performed brilliantly.
 
I’ve just popped a Wanted note up. Two popped up on eBay today but one’s an expensive gem and the other has no service history!
 
pvr said:
Basically, i want to buy a car from myself
You do that, mate. Just be careful, you can't trust anyone these days. :D
Interested to see how the V5 would work
 
plenty said:
There are very few cars made since about 1995 whose engines 'wear out' at 100k miles.
Anything mechanical wears out, it's just the way it is. When it wears out enough to be a major problem is dependent on many, many factors, as well as luck.
The 'ponchant' for low mileage cars holding value better is not 'an island thing', it is borne out of reality.

I would never, ever buy a car with over 100k on the clock (unless it was a proper classic which was not being driven often, or far).

I know of someone who has an E46 with over 400k miles on it. It has cost him more to keep on the road over the years than changing for a lower mileage car every few years. Typical case of "Trigger's broom".
 
400k miles is rather different to 100k miles though.

40 years ago 100k miles was considered a lot. Today, 200k is the new 100k. But the psychological 100k barrier still persists in people's minds long after the cars have moved on.

Most modern engines, and by that I mean blocks and heads, will easily do 200k with good oil and fuel. It's the ancillaries like water pumps, radiators, VANOS and the like which reach end of life well before the engine does.

In fact it's at the 70-80k mark that most cars start to throw up some proper bills. At this point any suspension will be tired and would benefit from a full refresh. Cooling systems, rod bearings and the like need replacing at this stage. A 100k miler that's had all of these jobs done is a far better bet than a 70k miler that hasn't.
 
I agree on the last point, but I think that would be not in every case that it has been done and probably a fair few of the 100k car ones are 70k cars that might have been stretched to just about breaking point.
 
Which is why a thorough file of receipts, not just stamps in the book, is a must when evaluating any older car. And to be clued up in advance on the items that need replacing so that you know what you're looking for.

If there's no receipt I assume it hasn't been done and factor that into my offer, if I make one.

Appreciate not everyone is inclined to go to the same lengths, in which case 'low miles' or 'low owners' can offer a small and far from guaranteed amount of risk mitigation.
 
plenty said:
Appreciate not everyone is inclined to go to the same lengths, in which case 'low miles' or 'low owners' can offer a small and far from guaranteed amount of risk mitigation.
Agreed. It's the perceived 'peace of mind' factor, whether rightly or wrongly.
I would imagine not many people, unless enthusiasts or very diligent, keep receipts for everything. Many people don't think it important to keep a record for the next owners. Cars are just there to be used (and abused) by many unfortunately.
 
100k is certainly a UK thing, whether its island mentality or not. Living in France for a few years people didnt sniff at 100k+ miles as they use their cars for long haul road trips regularly to other countries, something we do very little of here. Its certainly a weird UK island thing that 100k represents a big psychological barrier.

The main issue with physical receipts now is the data protection laws that came in to play, GDPR, dealers to keep things safe are shredding folders of paper work that any private seller passes to them. Obviously they dont have to, they can either simply get something written by the private owner saying they are ok with the receipts being kept with the car or they redact some of the info. But ultimately you will see less and less cars with physical paper trails if they end up going through a dealer.

What I always do is to set up a build thread on a number of websites, whenever I sell a car I put those build threads into the for sale advert. Any potential buyer then has some view of the car in my ownership and what work was done to the car.
 
plenty said:
But the psychological 100k barrier still persists in people's minds long after the cars have moved on.

When this topic comes up I often wonder if the psychological thing is related to the age of the driver/owner. My, and I’m sure many others on here, first experience of owning a car the mileage only went up to 99,999 and then restarted at 0. The phrase I remember from my uncle, who was an, engineer, and who also owned a garage and MOT station was “that’s been round the clock” normally preceded by “I’d avoid that one” or “that’ll be trouble” so these sort of things became ingrained in our thought processes.

I personally don’t bother as long as a car has been looked after and maintained properly. I’ve got an N52 E90 with 116K on it. I’ve replaced the water pump and thermostat and just before Xmas a full suspension refresh. Higher mileage, I expected these, and other items, to need done. I’ll keep it going until it becomes uneconomical. Then I’ll look for a replacement based on condition :thumbsup:
 
Argyll Andy said:
plenty said:
But the psychological 100k barrier still persists in people's minds long after the cars have moved on.
When this topic comes up I often wonder if the psychological thing is related to the age of the driver/owner.

100%. But they can also be passed down as tropes from generation to generation.

French cars are unreliable. Italian cars are rusty (think that one's just about died now). Etc.

The vast majority of folks don't have the inclination to look further, so it persists.
 
I still avoid British made cars at any cost. When young, the statement was always whichever department was on strike would be missing or badly fitted.

I bought one Discovery and that cemented the terrible quality thoughts again. Now I won’t touch anything UK made, and that would include Lotus and McClaren as well.
 
I have the 10 speaker “business cd” and it has DSP. 2003. I think the stereo is very good, and I am fairly particular.
 
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