E86 - Engine wont start ….update….now running.

[chanlon1]

Car: E86 Coupe N52 Engine

Symptoms:
All dashboards lights are fine, headlight indicators work, horn radio works etc
Turn the key and nothing happens.
No codes being found on a Creator C310+
Battery is good.

The lead up to this point:
the car had started to become a bit lethargic to start, so a new starter motor was bought at the start of the year.
Couple of weeks ago car had been out for a run. Came home, switched it off, then tried to turn back on again.
Heard a few clicks and nothing happened.
I installed the new starter motor.
Both red positive and black negative cables securely reattached etc.
Still nothing.
Then I thought it might be the ignition switch.
Bought a cheap one to se if that was the problem, installed it and still nothing.

Before I call the RAC to get them out to take a look, has anyone any suggestions?

thanks

 

[enuff_zed]

Hater to say it and crreate more work for you, but until you swap it out, you won't know if the new starter motor is duff.

You got all the leads back on?
NewTIS shows two positive leads and then the small connector under those.

 

[chanlon1]

Hater to say it and crreate more work for you, but until you swap it out, you won't know if the new starter motor is duff.

You got all the leads back on?
NewTIS shows two positive leads and then the small connector under those.

To be fair I never tested the starter before I put it in...going on the assumption it was okay.
The starter in question had two chunky red cables, that were joined together. This was then attached to the starter with the existing nut. The negative was a cable that had a black connector on the end and this attached to the plastic housing on the starter.
Both of these were put back on.

I did check the fuses for the starter to see if anything may have blown but all looked okay.

Is there a relay involved anywhere that could have blown?
I'm useless with multimeters, but is there a way I could test that battery power is getting to the motor. Not sure what needs to be connected to what to check.

 

[chanlon1]

Just thinking, I should really bench test the old one. That way I would know if power had stopped getting to the motor before I swapped them.

 

[j3nks79]

Test the old one. Just hook it up to some jump leads but watch your fingers.

 

[pvr]

In case the battery is dead (clicking can also be insufficient battery power), do you have a jump pack to attach?

 

[enuff_zed]

Looks a fairly simple circuit. It seems main power comes from the alternator or the jump start terminal in the engine bay.
The solenoid is actually energised by a signal from the EWS.
I do know that when you try to start the car, the EWS looks at the DME VIN, if it doesn't recognise it then it allows the starter to spin but doesn't run the fuel pump, so the engine just spins.
Although different to your situation, it does suggest that if power is coming from either the alternator or jump start point (hence the joined red cable) then the only other point is from the EWS signal.
Although this does pass through the 'Integrated Supply Module'?
Can't see any fuses at this point.
However, I'd expect to see some kind of EWS code recorded were that the case?

 

[enuff_zed]

Supply module is 'A6009'. Mounted on the front of the main ECU box. Worth a check inside for fuses?

 

[enuff_zed]

There is also a connector in the line from the Supply module to the starter (X60556)
Check that for issues too.

 

[chanlon1]

thanks enuff_zed, I'll take a look at those aswell as testing the starter.

Is it okay to try to start the engine with the mainfold. throttle body, MAF etc all removed/disconnetced?
As you know, to get to the starter I have to take the manifold bolts out, and given they are one time use only, I want to minimise the amount of times I have to buy a new set.
I presume the starter would still try to turn over even with all those other items disconnected etc?

 

[enuff_zed]

thanks enuff_zed, I'll take a look at those aswell as testing the starter.

Is it okay to try to start the engine with the mainfold. throttle body, MAF etc all removed/disconnetced?
As you know, to get to the starter I have to take the manifold bolts out, and given they are one time use only, I want to minimise the amount of times I have to buy a new set.
I presume the starter would still try to turn over even with all those other items disconnected etc?

I can see no reason why it wouldn't try to turn over?
I'd check all the connections etc first before you disturb too much.
Just sent the only N52 engined car I had off to Spa, so can't even do any diagnostic checks for you, sorry.
Definitely have a look inside that supply module.

 

[chanlon1]

There is also a connector in the line from the Supply module to the starter (X60556)
Check that for issues too.
Screenshot 2024-04-25 144926.png

I think I can get to the end of the wire under the throttle body, without having to remove the manifold....

Supply module is 'A6009'. Mounted on the front of the main ECU box. Worth a check inside for fuses?
Screenshot 2024-04-25 144644.png

Of course you can't easily get into that fuse box as the strut tower is in the way.....have to now open the other fuse box behind it first......

At least it looks like decent weather over here this evening.....

 

[enuff_zed]

There is also a connector in the line from the Supply module to the starter (X60556)
Check that for issues too.
Screenshot 2024-04-25 144926.png

I think I can get to the end of the wire under the throttle body, without having to remove the manifold....

Supply module is 'A6009'. Mounted on the front of the main ECU box. Worth a check inside for fuses?
Screenshot 2024-04-25 144644.png

Of course you can't easily get into that fuse box as the strut tower is in the way.....have to now open the other fuse box behind it first......

At least it looks like decent weather over here this evening.....

Well I'm watching and waiting to learn some more N52 stuff from you. :wink:
Definitely my weakest suit right now, but getting there.

 

[chanlon1]

Well I'm watching and waiting to learn some more N52 stuff from you. :wink:
Definitely my weakest suit right now, but getting there.

You could be watching a while

In my head I keep coming back to the fact that this all happened before I changed the starter, so I'm still on the belief I didn't cause it.

When you get in and turn the key, it just feels as if the immobiliser is preventing the car from starting.
Looking at the wiring diagram, does the EWS module have a tendency to fail?
And whereabouts is it located?

 

[pvr]

The immobiliser does not stop the starter from running though

 

[chanlon1]

The immobiliser does not stop the starter from running though

Really? What does it "immobilise" then?

 

[chanlon1]

Reading a bit more on all this and I have heard that on a manual, there is some switch under the clutch pedal that needs to be depressed in order to allow the engine to start....need to google this aswell

 

[enuff_zed]

The immobiliser does not stop the starter from running though

Really? What does it "immobilise" then?

[ref]bigwinn[/ref] and I found this out when we swapped in a new DME. We didn't tell the DME not to talk to the EWS, so when we turned the key the EWS didn't recognise the DME and wouldn't let the car start. The starter turned no problem at all, but the fuel pump didn't run and I assume the DME was not 'allowed' to try to inject fuel to start the car.

 

[enuff_zed]

Reading a bit more on all this and I have heard that on a manual, there is some switch under the clutch pedal that needs to be depressed in order to allow the engine to start....need to google this aswell

Not that I'm aware of? I know on the auto you have to put your foot on the brake, but in the manuals I usually just lean in the window and turn the key. Got to be worth a try though, but surely you would have always had to do that?

 

[enuff_zed]

Just replying to someone about something completely different and this cropped up:


Worth checking that the safety cut out on the battery hasn't popped.

It suggests you can bypass it to start the car. Worth a look?