E85 - Steering Veering Left

A

ann.nonco

Member
Hello Z4-Forum!

I've been fixing up my E85 to it's former glory step by step and ever since buying the car it seems that the car would veer left.
I have replaced all front shocks with OEM replacements (it runs the m sport springs all around), OEM control arms and OE inner and outer tie rods. :thumbsup:

With a recent alignment, the machine results are as follows.


I have used both Tool32 and ISTA (no difference between two other than tool32 being much faster) to recalibrate the centre but the car keeps on veering left. :headbang:

Would I need to replace the steering rack at this point? Or perhaps the king pins/knuckles?
When the tie rods were replaced the steering rack was completely fine and straight. This makes me suspect it may be the king pin...

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
 
Welcome!

My experience is that the king pin / knuckle is a pretty solid piece of metal. Has the car been in a crash/knock on the N/S? (Assuming RHD vehicle). This could have damaged the king pin I guess. Otherwise Unlikely to be damaged if it’s not had a crash IMO, not impossible but unlikely.

You mentioned suspension, did that include the drop links?

Have you replaced the sway bar bushes? And checked the bar for damage?

I’d do/check those before going down a replacement knuckle. As if you’re doing that, will need new bearings too (if you want to do it right). Then good practice is new bearings on the other side too.
 
Rockhopper said:
I guess you've checked the brakes are not dragging and tyre pressures are okay?
Click to expand...

And swap both front wheels over. This will help rule out wheel buckling / damage
 
Hello!

Thank you for your inputs :D ,
I did not replace the end links since the bushings on both sides did not have any side to side play.

The car did hit a pothole by the previous owner was what I was told and after that it kept veering left is what they said.
They replaced it with a hodgepodge mix of OE parts so I put OEM replacements in to rule out any variability.
No crashes to report of from the owner or on the VIN.

I’ll have a look at the aforementioned areas (sway bar etc) for any issues and report back.

Thank you!
 
You can just unbolt the drop links on both sides to eliminate the anti roll bar. It'll still be okay to drive (unless you go hooning it around!!).
 
Looking at the chart you have I think I'd start by getting that rear toe sorted.
Until you're sure the rear isn't steering the car then you could be wasting money chasing things.
If you visualise the rear wheels, looking from above, as per the diagram, you will see they both point off to the right, so as you're driving they will be trying to pull themselves straight, effectively turning the front of the car left.
Are the garage aware of how to adjust it?
And are they aware that changing camber affects the toe, so you have to tweak both a couple of times to get it sorted.
 
Just some progress in inspection the car,

Drop links - Left side is slightly bent, right is completely straight. Bushings are in good condition.
Anti roll bar - Completely straight and fine. Bushings are in good condition.
Wheels - These have been swapped but the issue still remains with the left veering condition.
Brakes - Caliper pins have been regreased but still veers left. I don't think it is a stuck caliper. Brake fluid was flushed one month ago with DOT 4.
Tyre pressure - 35psi front, 38 psi rear. No loss.
Knuckle - No visible damage and rust. It looks completely fine just caked in brake dust and dirt from the road.

I've since resent it to the shop and they'll be doing the 4 point alignment with a hunter machine again.
The gas tank is 3/4 full so weight wise it should be nicely planted.

Please see some images below,

This is the left side steering rack that is completely free of contaminants and is straight. Right side is the same.

View attachment 1
Apart from the engine oil stains it's completely straight, mounted correctly and has no play.

View attachment 2
This is my concern. I think that the previous owner may have ever so slightly bent the subframe on the left side of the vehicle.
The surrounding area has no stress or rust marks. It looks to be just a dent as the lower control arm struck the subframe as it hit the pothole is what I am assuming.

Hoping that the re-alignment fixes the issue, otherwise it looks to be the subframe that is the issue at this point. :tumbleweed:
 
Can’t guarantee the alignment will fix it but as it is obviously biasing the car in that direction you do need to eliminate that before you look elsewhere
 
Hi everyone, some progress somewhat.

It seems that the right lower control arm bushing (the mechanic seems to have kept the old ones since they were fine) and rear left trailing bushing is wobbling when leveraged around with a pry bar.

I was not told by the alignment shop (my fourth visit for this issue) at all so I'm a bit disappointed that both the shop and the independent tech that worked on my car didn't pick this up. Oh well, live and learn :P

Google shows that bushings do affect camber, so I think these bushings may be the core of this issue. This issue was picked up as the car was sent to a another shop who had a mechanic that was more well versed in stuff like this.

Task in hand to get these four bushings (lollipops and rear trailing arms) done then get it re-aligned.
If I had the funds I'd get all related bushings done (ex. transmission/driveshaft etc) but labour and parts can quickly build up in cost as the E85 has ALOT of bushings compared to a say Honda Type R :lol:

Also it seems that the impact on the subframe is just cosmetic and does not affect the geometry of the car (as noted by the tech) so that sounds assuring nonetheless. :thumbsup:
 
ann.nonco said:
Drop links - Left side is slightly bent, right is completely straight.
Click to expand...

Left side being the issue, and the small costs of new drop links, I'd get these done too.
 
Yep, I've placed an order of new lollipop, rtab and drop links to replace possibly next month or so.

With some new tyres fitted on the car it feels much better but I think the new bushings will seal the job. :driving:

Thank you to everyone again :thumbsup:
 
Sounds like you’re onto a winner then! :driving:

Lollipops I’d recommend powerflex. I found I was going through the bushes every few years. I blame our glorious roads here in the UK. But yeah powerflex/polybush are the way to go IMO.
 
kis said:
Sounds like you’re onto a winner then! :driving:

Lollipops I’d recommend powerflex. I found I was going through the bushes every few years. I blame our glorious roads here in the UK. But yeah powerflex/polybush are the way to go IMO.
Click to expand...

Already have an order of lemfords(?) OEM rubber lollipops since I was told from my friends that aftermarket/poly options can make the ride harsh which is what I'm not looking for rather more of a GT car.

Maybe on the next set of bushings I'll do everything in poly and change the shocks to something more aggressive :evil:
 
I’ve also experienced this recently along with lights showing up on the dash.
In my case it started with having to replace the original (2007) front shocks to get the car through this year’s MoT which then set in train the renewal of:
Front springs & shock mounts etc.,
Control arms & bushes,
Steering wishbones & bushes,
Brake calipers & pads and
New tie rod assemblies & gaiter sets.
My mechanic used line of sight / bit of string I think to set up the alignment after fitting the tie rods so he advised me to go to the tyre fitters to get a proper alignment done after the trifecta lights appeared on the dash again about a week after fitment. I had noticed the car pulling to the left as well.
As it so happens, the guys at the tyre fitters had just taken delivery of a brand new computerised wheel alignment set up and I was customer number 5.
There is definitely an improvement in the handling, but………
I think the car is still pulling to the left (kerbside in the UK) slightly.
So, my thoughts on this are:
1. The wheel alignment guy said that adjustment was needed on the rear wheels but he did not want to risk snapping off potentially seized sixteen year old fasteners on a Friday evening, (see also enuff_zed’s previous post). And the rear linkage area does look rough and needs attention!
2. The camber of the road will naturally pull the car toward the kerb?
3. If the warning lights stay off the dash I’ll be happy.
 
Roberltd2 said:
1. The wheel alignment guy said that adjustment was needed on the rear wheels but he did not want to risk snapping off potentially seized sixteen year old fasteners on a Friday evening, (see also enuff_zed’s previous post). And the rear linkage area does look rough and needs attention!
2. The camber of the road will naturally pull the car toward the kerb?
3. If the warning lights stay off the dash I’ll be happy.
Click to expand...

Hello hello! What lights are on the dash? If it's the famous trifecta trio then it just might be a faulty speed sensor that requires a Tool32 reset.

For 2. Yes that's natural with most cars as if the road isn't perfectly level it will pull slightly towards the kerb. It's due to camber and with this platform I think it's factory to have a bit of camber to improve cornering performance.

As aforementioned I did get my wheels redone and rebalanced - I think due to the imbalance on the rims it was naturally causing the car to pull.

I still have not booked in an alignment yet as I will get the bushings replaced done then realigned as it will be a waste of money since I will need to do it twice. :thumbsup:
 
I think they were the classic trifectas:
circle with excamation mark & brackets (brake shoes) either side
tyre cross section image with excamation inside and
warning triangle encircled by an anti clockwise arrow in the rev counter.
After fitting the new tie rod assembly, my mechanic did a reset which got rid of the lights for exactly a week but the following day the steering became very twitchy and strange and the lights came on again. He did another reset and by then the tyre fitters had taken delivery of their new allignment system so I was booked in within a couple of days.
Turns out the toe on the front wheels was way out so they corrected that but as I mentioned before, they left the rear assembly until I get it cleaned up a bit. Both rear wheels are pointing slightly toward the offside by a fraction of a degree so no doubt that's contributing to the nearside pull as well.
Anyway, one week and one day on and the trifectas have not returned as yet (touch wood!)
IMG_20230929_193651.jpg
IMG_20231124_170301.jpg
IMG_20231124_171433.jpg
 
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