E85/6 compared to chimaera. Any views?

[Sawman]

Afternoon all!

I am new here so be gentle. I have been looking forward to putting something with some character in my garage this summer. My focus has been on tvr chimaera, and I am about to embark on some test drives. Tvrs generally have a poor reliability reputation but I feel the chim might be the sweet spot in this regard.
Just for due diligence, i thought I should check out any other possibilities, which is how i started looking at Z4s and specifically the E85/6 iteration. I found s 3.0 coupe nearby which looks lovely, if showing signs of its 80odd k miles. I am guessing that further depreciation will be minimal in both tvr and bmw at this point ( may even go up a bit??). I guess a z4 might be an easier semi daily driver. Is a 12 year old BMW likely to be heading for any big bills?
If anyone has any personal experience of chim 400 and E85/6 I’d love to hear about it

 

[Tinker15]

I can’t help you with regard to the E85/E86 comparison as I own a E89. However, I have owned a 1998 TVR Chimaera 450 from 2013 until about 6 months ago. I sold the car for £14k which is more than I paid for it in 2013. They are great cars and if looked after properly are not as unreliable as some people believe. But beware there are some dogs out there and unless you know what you are doing it can cost you serious money. The chassis suffer from “Blackpool rot” and the outriggers are particularly susceptible. To replace them you are looking at £2k. Other bits can rust as well as the powder coating TVR did was poor to say the least.

It really isn’t a car to use on a daily basis but is a joy during the summer months. Mine was only used in the winter when it was dry and there was no salt around. They can leak so look out for soggy carpets and a musty smell. Make sure you buy one from a TVR specialist and it is essential it has a full service history again by a TVR specialist. There are a number of good cars out there but prices are increasing and you will not get one for a few thousand pounds. So buyer beware!

 

[Sawman]

Cheers Tinker,
Research so far suggests initial outlay would be higher on the TVR and i expect on going and regular tweaking. I am familiar with this process as i dailied a morgan for 4 years and 40k miles. What prompted your chang if you dont mind me asking. And what(if anything )are you missing from the TVR?

 

[Tinker15]

I had a Plus 8 before the Chim.

I’ve had sports cars since I was 50 but I’m now in my 70s and wanted something that had a few more creature comforts. The E89 is automatic, easier to get in and out of and has air conditioning and as we spend the summer in France comes in very useful. I’m enjoying the E89 but, of course, it is very different to the TVR. The only thing I really miss is the noise. The straight six is a great engine but sounds nothing like a V8. I’ve owned two V8s so I’ve ticked the boxes and can now rest easy with my BMW.

 

[Sawman]

nice Mog! mine was a 4 seater.

I get the aircon - sitting in an open car in hot sun in traffic is no fun - I prefer open topping on grey days and in the winter (with appropriate headgear).
The V8 thing is one of my main motivations, although sixes can be characterful - hoping to get some test drives done this week, if it ever stops raining!

 

[buzyg]

Chimera is a lovely car. Big heart and one of the more easy managed of the tvrs. Only you no if your up for the maintenance.. Most Zeds just plain work. On the driving side I would say the Chimera drives more like an ///MR than any other Zed I have tried. But loads more umff low down and no TC. :lol:

 

[Russ59]

I had a Plus 8 before the Chim.

I’ve had sports cars since I was 50 but I’m now in my 70s and wanted something that had a few more creature comforts. The E89 is automatic, easier to get in and out of and has air conditioning and as we spend the summer in France comes in very useful. I’m enjoying the E89 but, of course, it is very different to the TVR. The only thing I really miss is the noise. The straight six is a great engine but sounds nothing like a V8. I’ve owned two V8s so I’ve ticked the boxes and can now rest easy with my BMW.

Loving the Plus 8
I hired a Plus 4 for the day for my 60th birthday in June and loved every minute of it
I bet the Plus 8 is a nicer drive though.

 

[Tinker15]

I owned Morgans for nearly 20 years and loved them. Good luck with your hunt for the car that suits you best. I’m sure whichever car you decide on you will enjoy. Keep us posted on what you decide.

 

[Mr Alan]

Hi, I have been fortunate enough to have both. I had a P registration chimera 400. It was a great car I never had any problems with it as it was only a second vehicle. Very light in the wet and quite twitchy and fragile feeling. E 86 is a very different animal indeed. It feels like a properly put together Gt car by a large manufacturer. Very solid.

 

[Tinker15]

I had a Plus 8 before the Chim.

I’ve had sports cars since I was 50 but I’m now in my 70s and wanted something that had a few more creature comforts. The E89 is automatic, easier to get in and out of and has air conditioning and as we spend the summer in France comes in very useful. I’m enjoying the E89 but, of course, it is very different to the TVR. The only thing I really miss is the noise. The straight six is a great engine but sounds nothing like a V8. I’ve owned two V8s so I’ve ticked the boxes and can now rest easy with my BMW.

Loving the Plus 8
I hired a Plus 4 for the day for my 60th birthday in June and loved every minute of it
I bet the Plus 8 is a nicer drive though.

I had a Plus 4 before the Plus 8 and enjoyed that too. They are very different cars but if I had to choose one it would be the Plus 8. There is the sound track of course but in general it is a nicer car to drive. Not as nimble as the Plus 4 though!

 

[Bmmeupscotty]

I guess it depends what u want from the car, if it's just a weekend toy, then The TVR would be awesome, but like others have said it's getting the right one that's not going to turn into a money pit. I was fortunate enough to own a Griff 5.0 , I owned it for 2 years, it had done 24k, admittedly I had it serviced at TVR in redhill, but 1st service was 1200, second was 2k and they nicely told me either sell it or get ready to spend on chassis and engine rebuild! There ended my love affair with TVR. Plus when I started sourcing parts, XR4i Discs, Cavalier Taillights , Sherpa van brake cylinder!! Etc etc, I sold and moved to an E36 M3 Evo, different league in build quality and daily driver.
If I had choice now of the TVR or E85/86, I think I'd be going the E86 Coupe preferred with the M variant 3.2

 

[Anonymous]

I had a Chim500 for a couple of years and while it was fun, made an incredible sound and turned heads it always felt like it was going to go wrong at any given point. My first e85, other other hand, was totally solid.

That said the Chim is very easy to maintain, and work on with good access to much of it.

 

[Tinker15]

I guess it depends what u want from the car, if it's just a weekend toy, then The TVR would be awesome, but like others have said it's getting the right one that's not going to turn into a money pit. I was fortunate enough to own a Griff 5.0 , I owned it for 2 years, it had done 24k, admittedly I had it serviced at TVR in redhill, but 1st service was 1200, second was 2k and they nicely told me either sell it or get ready to spend on chassis and engine rebuild! There ended my love affair with TVR. Plus when I started sourcing parts, XR4i Discs, Cavalier Taillights , Sherpa van brake cylinder!! Etc etc, I sold and moved to an E36 M3 Evo, different league in build quality and daily driver.
If I had choice now of the TVR or E85/86, I think I'd be going the E86 Coupe preferred with the M variant 3.2

I know if you buy a TVR you should be prepared to spend money but it sounds as though you were most unfortunate. When I sold mine it was still on the original chassis and the outriggers were still in good condition. I replaced the radiator with an aluminium version and fitted an oil cooler as it was none to happy with the Summer temperatures when it was out here in France. The alarm system went faulty and was replaced but other than that it was a routine service every year at about £400/500 a time. I enjoyed my 6 years with the car but have to say I am very happy with my E89 which has proved to be enjoyable and easier to live with. I do miss the V8 noise though!

 

[Wildfire]

I've got a modified Griffith 400 which I've had since 2003 and an E86 that I've had since 2012.

Whilst they are both similar lay out and similar power they are very different cars. The TVR is an experience to drive and an occasion. Sounds like nothing else, but is distinctly less refined, the 15 years gap definitely showing.

I have to say that the Griff is still fast, by virtue of being lighter than the Z4 and I am happy in either for short or long distance. However this weekend I did take the Z4 to Scotland.

With all TVR's they are older cars and you will have to check the chassis and on the RV8 cars the No. 8 cam lobe has a tendency to wear prematurely. You'll also want to check the cats, pre-cats and then de-cat with an ACT Cherry Bomb Exhaust :evil:

They can be made more comfortable, stick to the original wheels and some decent shocks. Get the geometry set up and it won't try and kill you and resist the temptation to engine break everywhere. Dropping it 2 gears and nailing it in the wet can result in some hairy moments. Economy is a lottery depending on car.

The Z4 conversely is a pretty sedate drive, it drives like 2 seater BMW. Pretty quick and refined, not as much as the E89 though, but way more a GT than the TVR. That said my TVR has been far more reliable than the Z4.

As an everyday car the Z4 wins hands down, parts are mostly available, it heats and demists and doesn't leak or rattle (much). That said look after a TVR and you can do the same.

 

[Thrustyjust]

I had a TVR S3 . Yes, its not a Chim, but built about the same time with the same quirks. It was pretty 'kit car' in its construction and at the time that was to cut down on production costs . Great then, but certain parts are getting pretty scarce. My front indicator was only fitted to a TX taxi and a maclaren F1 ............. :? Steering rack was Vauxhall Chevette and brake servo Saab.
The same with the Chim and certain Ford parts getting low on availability. The one big issue is outriggers . The chassis was plastic coated and all the stones would happily chip the coat off and the rot starts. Most of them should have had outriggers replaced , but do check if that is the case. Also being fibre glass, paint work and repairs are more costly. The engines and boxes are all pretty solid being the RV8 lump. But they do eat cams and working on bits can be tight in there, such as exhausts.
From having the time with the TVR , the wife said it 'just sounds great, but its not a great car' . The chim, I would look for one with PAS and as much a garage queen as possible. From working on it, every bolt was a real work out to get undone , unlike the beemer, which I am yet to find one as a challenge.
Must admit that was thinking about a Chim, behind the wifes back, but knowing the amount of work needed to keep it from not leaking petrol, miss firing, breaking wrists from parking, body fit and finish, decided on the E86 instead. But I do miss the al fresco motoring a little.

 

[Sawman]

I've got a modified Griffith 400 which I've had since 2003 and an E86 that I've had since 2012.

Whilst they are both similar lay out and similar power they are very different cars. The TVR is an experience to drive and an occasion. Sounds like nothing else, but is distinctly less refined, the 15 years gap definitely showing.

I have to say that the Griff is still fast, by virtue of being lighter than the Z4 and I am happy in either for short or long distance. However this weekend I did take the Z4 to Scotland.

With all TVR's they are older cars and you will have to check the chassis and on the RV8 cars the No. 8 cam lobe has a tendency to wear prematurely. You'll also want to check the cats, pre-cats and then de-cat with an ACT Cherry Bomb Exhaust :evil:

They can be made more comfortable, stick to the original wheels and some decent shocks. Get the geometry set up and it won't try and kill you and resist the temptation to engine break everywhere. Dropping it 2 gears and nailing it in the wet can result in some hairy moments. Economy is a lottery depending on car.

The Z4 conversely is a pretty sedate drive, it drives like 2 seater BMW. Pretty quick and refined, not as much as the E89 though, but way more a GT than the TVR. That said my TVR has been far more reliable than the Z4.

As an everyday car the Z4 wins hands down, parts are mostly available, it heats and demists and doesn't leak or rattle (much). That said look after a TVR and you can do the same.

Cheers, great feedback my heart says tvr but head says E86!

 

[Sawman]

I had a TVR S3 . Yes, its not a Chim, but built about the same time with the same quirks. It was pretty 'kit car' in its construction and at the time that was to cut down on production costs . Great then, but certain parts are getting pretty scarce. My front indicator was only fitted to a TX taxi and a maclaren F1 ............. :? Steering rack was Vauxhall Chevette and brake servo Saab.
The same with the Chim and certain Ford parts getting low on availability. The one big issue is outriggers . The chassis was plastic coated and all the stones would happily chip the coat off and the rot starts. Most of them should have had outriggers replaced , but do check if that is the case. Also being fibre glass, paint work and repairs are more costly. The engines and boxes are all pretty solid being the RV8 lump. But they do eat cams and working on bits can be tight in there, such as exhausts.
From having the time with the TVR , the wife said it 'just sounds great, but its not a great car' . The chim, I would look for one with PAS and as much a garage queen as possible. From working on it, every bolt was a real work out to get undone , unlike the beemer, which I am yet to find one as a challenge.
Must admit that was thinking about a Chim, behind the wifes back, but knowing the amount of work needed to keep it from not leaking petrol, miss firing, breaking wrists from parking, body fit and finish, decided on the E86 instead. But I do miss the al fresco motoring a little.

Its a proper dilemma, i do like the lines of thd E86, hopefully get to test drive both over the next couple of weeks and go from there!

 

[Davz]

I can see the attraction in buying one, they look and sound great but, for me, my head would say run a mile. They were engineered on a shoe string, old fashioned fabricated tubular chassis and a kit car fibreglass body with a mix of parts from any manufacturer that could do a good price. There is no traction control, no airbags, zero crash protection, in other words a death trap. A couple of years back, where I live, a fella who couldn't stop his tvr at a motorway roundabout due to brake failure, died. The tvr was just a pile of bits, the body just disintegrated as though it was made of Papier mache. Having been in three serious road accidents and knowing what idiots there are out there, I personally wouldn't consider a tvr but that's just me and each to their own. The head will say Z4 the heart will say tvr power and sound.....you will just have to decide for yourself.

 

[Sawman]

Well, just to update - yesterday i had a good half an hours test drive in a chimaera 400, it was raining so didnt go mad. Really love the v8 rumble, huge sense of occasion and surprisingly supple suspension over some fairly unsettled road surface.
Today had a fairly brief test drive in an e86. Great engine note when taps opened, drove on smooth road so difficult to judge ride and handling, nice to have air con. I like the shape of it- like a modern triumph gt6, was surprised to find it more awkward to get in and out of (bit of a back issue) than the tvr.
Didnt like the chunky wheel - can these be swapped?
Still struggling with choice.... have at least ruled out gt86 and mx5 as being a bit sterile

 

[Mike6]

Cannot help with the TVR but I am approaching 70 and my last car was a carb turbo lotus esprit. Absolute madness driving it, often broke down, sounded like there was no exhaust but my god it grabbed your heart. Rev it to 3k revs take foot off throttle and the backfiring was incredible and at night you could see flames coming out the exhaust. The wife however was not that impressed nor did she like hanging around in the rain and watching neighbours curtains moving as we came home on back of tow truck. So it had to go. Took me less than 5 minutes to sell it on the Lotus Forum and left a big hole in the garage and a few thousand quid in my pocket.
A bit of research and we went to see the Zed. very low miles, lovely condition and the roof came down just like a proper sports car. That was four years ago and the wife still loves the car and so do I. There is a BUT, its just to civilised doesnt attract any real interest at the monthly car meet I go to (probably on a par with MX5). Would I buy another one, dont think so. We should buy a car with out heart not our head. I suggest you go for the Chimaera, thats a big boys sports car.