Looks very exciting Dave, please do keep us updated!
Stevo
Stevo
E30 Race Car Blog with Video
- Thread starter Fishy Dave
- Start date
Love the new race car 
Have you checked towing weights for your 325ti? You might be moving beyond weight levels and the current set up looks too nose heavy judging by the rear suspension?
You might try loading it a little further back which will make it better balanced.
Trailers probably 400kg-500kg out of the total capacity of the car of c1600kg so leaving only 1100-1200kg of the car.
Been towing cars for 20 and taken by VOSA to weighbridges a good few times wth jeeps on the back
Have you checked towing weights for your 325ti? You might be moving beyond weight levels and the current set up looks too nose heavy judging by the rear suspension?
You might try loading it a little further back which will make it better balanced.
Trailers probably 400kg-500kg out of the total capacity of the car of c1600kg so leaving only 1100-1200kg of the car.
Been towing cars for 20 and taken by VOSA to weighbridges a good few times wth jeeps on the back
Thanks, yes, it is close. The 325ti is rated at towing a 1600kg braked trailer, the race car is 1054kg exactly including ballast (+ my weight when racing = 1140kg which is the minimum race weight). I agree, I think I had a little too much nose weight, plus there was a lot of spares including a diff, spare wheels and numerous boxes of bits in the boot on the tow car. Thanks for the warning, very much appreciated 
TomK said:
Also keen to hear how your day went Phil, I had a text from Gary who was complimentary, he said "a very good driver in the making" 8)
Fishy Dave said:Thanks, yes, it is close. The 325ti is rated at towing a 1600kg braked trailer, the race car is 1054kg exactly including ballast (+ my weight when racing = 1140kg which is the minimum race weight). I agree, I think I had a little too much nose weight, plus there was a lot of spares including a diff, spare wheels and numerous boxes of bits in the boot on the tow car. Thanks for the warning, very much appreciated
Cool - glad you made it within the limits. Might be obvious but one good idea is to borrow the bathroom scales and weight the jockey wheel when all loaded. Aim for something around 100kg and it'll be way better on the rear end of the car. You'll find the trailer does the work, not the rear car tyres
Fishy Dave said:Thanks, yes, it is close. The 325ti is rated at towing a 1600kg braked trailer, the race car is 1054kg exactly including ballast (+ my weight when racing = 1140kg which is the minimum race weight). I agree, I think I had a little too much nose weight, plus there was a lot of spares including a diff, spare wheels and numerous boxes of bits in the boot on the tow car. Thanks for the warning, very much appreciated
This is interesting as I've just fitted a towbar to my 5 Touring (F11) and the towable weigh is 1900kg. A standard Zed is about 1350kg which leaves 550kg for the trailer going by the old rules.
However, I've been told that it no longer matters whats on the trailer, but now its the trailier capacity. We have a 3500 capacity at work I can borrow, but I'm now told that i cant even tow that empty ! The police just look at the capacity plate on the trailer and then the maximum capacity of the car and they can then make a decision there and then if you are legal or not without needing a weighbridge.
In my case, I need to find a trailer with a total laden carrying capacity of 1900kg max which even with the 1350kg Zed on would make me legal.
I looked at your picture and thought if you can tow the race car behind a 3 serious coupe, surely I can tow a Zed behind a 5 series, but I haven't managed it yet !
Any experts on here ?
That's exactly what I used to think, that an empty trailer could still make you illegal. As a result of this I had my old Brian James Minno downplated so our old Toyota Celica Sports M could tow the Caterham. Since then I've found various bits of info that suggests you are fine as long as you don't exceed the total train weight or braked towing weight of the car (so I could have saved my money!). http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/towing-and-towing-laws/show/can-i-still-tow-this-trailer
Fishy Dave said:That's exactly what I used to think, that an empty trailer could still make you illegal. As a result of this I had my old Brian James Minno downplated so our old Toyota Celica Sports M could tow the Caterham. Since then I've found various bits of info that suggests you are fine as long as you don't exceed the total train weight or braked towing weight of the car (so I could have saved my money!). http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/towing-and-towing-laws/show/can-i-still-tow-this-trailer
Yep
I was of the same opinion too but this came up on PH recently, and it was confirmed that the trailers plated weight isn't what matters!!
Well that all reads excitingly Fishy Dave - love the idea of racing at 140bhp against the same.
Ever likely to get up to Croft? Would like to see the racing
All the best with your new venture
Ever likely to get up to Croft? Would like to see the racing
All the best with your new venture
VRSteve said:Fishy Dave said:That's exactly what I used to think, that an empty trailer could still make you illegal. As a result of this I had my old Brian James Minno downplated so our old Toyota Celica Sports M could tow the Caterham. Since then I've found various bits of info that suggests you are fine as long as you don't exceed the total train weight or braked towing weight of the car (so I could have saved my money!). http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/towing-and-towing-laws/show/can-i-still-tow-this-trailer
Yep
I was of the same opinion too but this came up on PH recently, and it was confirmed that the trailers plated weight isn't what matters!!
Agreed and hence why I never mentioned plated trailer weight, rather towing capacity of the car. Total train weight is also controlled by your driving licence as well as the car.
You also have to consider axle limit of the towing car and trailer and stability of the overall unit.
As posted Dave would be ticketed without doubt as it's so tail heavy it would certainly make the car unstable by reducing car nose weight and impact steering (in the eyes of the law)
There's lots of good info on the web that people never seem to know:
Type and fitting of towbars
Licence limits
Speed limits with trailers
Lane limits like no use of third lane on motorways
Recommended max towing as a % of car manufacturer spec. (Usually 85% or less)
Law's really tough and now to move my Jeep I cannot even use a 3.5t breakdown truck, but need a 7.5t truck and all the cost that it would incur.
Motor sport isn't cheap..
I went to Brans Hatch on Saturday 10th Dec. Went down in an M4, which was a great start to the day.
We arrived early and met Gary and the team. There were two E30 PBMWs there, mine and a newbie called Will who will be racing with GRF in the 2017 championship. He was a lovely guy, about 19, and was pretty new to track days.
Whilst they prepped the car and garage we attended the Briefing. And to my surprise, Tom Chilton was making a guest appearance for the day. Two lucky people were picked out randomly and each had 30 minutes of 1 on 1 tuition with Tom, lucky buggers.
After a bacon roll for some much needed wake up fuel we were in the car getting ready for the first stint. I have never driven an E30 before, so I was keen to see how it compared to the Z4M.
The weather was pretty cold, the track was wet, and the car had 888s. With an open diff this was going to be exciting.
The morning sessions started off at a slow pace, learning the car and track, my first time at Brans. The first thing I noticed was how heavy non assisted steering felt, and how many turns the rack was from lock to lock. Also the throttle was a lot less sensitive that the M, which took a while to adjust to but was actually welcome after 10 laps.
Doing a track day in the E30, with only 145 bhp was a brand new experience. I was getting buzzed by so many cars with loads more power, and some caterhams with wet tyres, but I soon learnt to drive hard where I could and be aware of others coming past. Everyone was well behaved and things progressed.
After lunch, with some track and car time under my belt I increased the pace and pushed harder each lap. Now I could feel the car on the limit of the tyres and I started to get used to it being on and beyond the limit of grip. Brans is a great circuit, so different from the flat of Bedford Autodrome.
Towards the end of the afternoon my pace had increased significantly and I was having loads of fun, the grin on my face was huge lol. The track was drying slowly and was becoming more and more greasy. Graham Hil bend was a nightmare with the apex like an ice rink! I pushed on as hard as I had all day, and ended up doing a massive drift in front of James, one of the GRF instructors who was following in their new Z4 3.0 Race Car. I held the drift and came in a lap later for a rest, to be greeted by a marshall who informed me in an every so nice way that drifting is not allowed and he took my number and wrote it in the naughty book!
A few laps later, we saw the medical car leaving the pit lane. We then heard that the Z4 had left the track and was involved in an accident. We found it, burried into the tyre wall on the exit of druids. Gary's business partner was clearly enjoying himself a bit too much and had spun out and had a big one. The car was recovered and the entire right hand side was dented, every panel from the front wing to the rear. Whoops! The only thing hurt was his pride, but it was a bit extra drama for Gary as they had driven the Z down and now had to trailer it home, to get back in time to get the PBMWs back.
The day finished with another 10 laps on a pretty empty track and the light faded and everyone had had their fill. Over the day I was faster than Will, so I may not qualify last for the first race (note MAY lol). My mates were timing my laps and I went from 1:16s in the morning to 1:11:54 best time and most laps around 1:12 - 1:13 depending upon traffic. I have no idea how that compares to wet lap times in the PBMW series, but hey, it was an awesome intro and I really loved having support from GRF throughout the day. Having someone to tend to the car, help with the harnesses and coms, and keep things running smoothly was something I could get used to lol.
I am going to get more dates booked in between now and the first race, getting an much pre-season learning done as I can before the first race meet @ Cadwell Park late April.
We arrived early and met Gary and the team. There were two E30 PBMWs there, mine and a newbie called Will who will be racing with GRF in the 2017 championship. He was a lovely guy, about 19, and was pretty new to track days.
Whilst they prepped the car and garage we attended the Briefing. And to my surprise, Tom Chilton was making a guest appearance for the day. Two lucky people were picked out randomly and each had 30 minutes of 1 on 1 tuition with Tom, lucky buggers.
After a bacon roll for some much needed wake up fuel we were in the car getting ready for the first stint. I have never driven an E30 before, so I was keen to see how it compared to the Z4M.
The weather was pretty cold, the track was wet, and the car had 888s. With an open diff this was going to be exciting.
The morning sessions started off at a slow pace, learning the car and track, my first time at Brans. The first thing I noticed was how heavy non assisted steering felt, and how many turns the rack was from lock to lock. Also the throttle was a lot less sensitive that the M, which took a while to adjust to but was actually welcome after 10 laps.
Doing a track day in the E30, with only 145 bhp was a brand new experience. I was getting buzzed by so many cars with loads more power, and some caterhams with wet tyres, but I soon learnt to drive hard where I could and be aware of others coming past. Everyone was well behaved and things progressed.
After lunch, with some track and car time under my belt I increased the pace and pushed harder each lap. Now I could feel the car on the limit of the tyres and I started to get used to it being on and beyond the limit of grip. Brans is a great circuit, so different from the flat of Bedford Autodrome.
Towards the end of the afternoon my pace had increased significantly and I was having loads of fun, the grin on my face was huge lol. The track was drying slowly and was becoming more and more greasy. Graham Hil bend was a nightmare with the apex like an ice rink! I pushed on as hard as I had all day, and ended up doing a massive drift in front of James, one of the GRF instructors who was following in their new Z4 3.0 Race Car. I held the drift and came in a lap later for a rest, to be greeted by a marshall who informed me in an every so nice way that drifting is not allowed and he took my number and wrote it in the naughty book!
A few laps later, we saw the medical car leaving the pit lane. We then heard that the Z4 had left the track and was involved in an accident. We found it, burried into the tyre wall on the exit of druids. Gary's business partner was clearly enjoying himself a bit too much and had spun out and had a big one. The car was recovered and the entire right hand side was dented, every panel from the front wing to the rear. Whoops! The only thing hurt was his pride, but it was a bit extra drama for Gary as they had driven the Z down and now had to trailer it home, to get back in time to get the PBMWs back.
The day finished with another 10 laps on a pretty empty track and the light faded and everyone had had their fill. Over the day I was faster than Will, so I may not qualify last for the first race (note MAY lol). My mates were timing my laps and I went from 1:16s in the morning to 1:11:54 best time and most laps around 1:12 - 1:13 depending upon traffic. I have no idea how that compares to wet lap times in the PBMW series, but hey, it was an awesome intro and I really loved having support from GRF throughout the day. Having someone to tend to the car, help with the harnesses and coms, and keep things running smoothly was something I could get used to lol.
I am going to get more dates booked in between now and the first race, getting an much pre-season learning done as I can before the first race meet @ Cadwell Park late April.
markplant said:
That was my exact thought as I read it
Nice one Phil, sounds like a great day. Driving in those conditions will undoubtedly teach you a lot!
I found it pretty treacherous on Monday also (as did Tom Chilton who bent the GTR
) so took it very easy when Dave let me have a go in his new car (so took it very very easy 
). It felt great, as you say the amount of lock needed takes some getting used to as well as the difference in throttle response. I look forward to driving it some more just perhaps in somewhat safer conditions!
I was out in the Z quite a lot as well. First time at the circuit, intimidating, was like an ice rink in some places :lol:
In the garage next to us there was a couple of guys with a supercharged Z4M, it's days like these I bet they wished they had a 100hp less, not more!
I found it pretty treacherous on Monday also (as did Tom Chilton who bent the GTR
) so took it very easy when Dave let me have a go in his new car (so took it very very easy ). It felt great, as you say the amount of lock needed takes some getting used to as well as the difference in throttle response. I look forward to driving it some more just perhaps in somewhat safer conditions!I was out in the Z quite a lot as well. First time at the circuit, intimidating, was like an ice rink in some places :lol:
In the garage next to us there was a couple of guys with a supercharged Z4M, it's days like these I bet they wished they had a 100hp less, not more!
Excellent report Phil (and Tom), I'll comment more tomorrow, off to bed now, have just put together a few clips. Once again apologies for the video, it's in HD but the phone shakes around so much in the holder it's pretty blurry. Night, Dave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bb0jfyRYM&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bb0jfyRYM&feature=youtu.be
On Sunday afternoon I made sure I loaded the trailer correctly with cj10jeeper's words of wisdom in my head. With nothing in the tow car boot and the race car a few inches further back the balance was just about right, nice and stable and the rear suspension wasn't sagging as much.
I'd booked a hotel the night before at the Brands Hatch Mercure, with friend Philip and my Dad (who also drove my car). It was a good move, saving a 3am wake up call. Conditions were much like Phil experienced, ranging between damp with a drying line to wet and changing through the day. The car was great fun, no problems except a high idle, I didn't touch the settings or tyre pressures from how Gary Feakins had set the car up, I'll fiddle with these on another day.
As you mentioned Phil, the steering is rather different from what we're used to with lots of turns lock to lock. Mine has the manual rack which is apparently worse for this than the pas version?
Mention has to go to the brave souls in the nice Interlagos Blue Z4MR who not only have 450bhp with a supercharger but had also been experiencing brake issues so had disabled everything including the ABS. I had a number of tussles with them through the day which we had a good laugh about afterwards, sadly the phone didn't record a couple of times.
Tom seemed to enjoy himself, putting in some smooth laps on a track and car new to him. In fact I had to suggest a cool down lap as he didn't look like he wanted to stop He was flying in his M Coupe once the track started to get a drier line. 8)
I was pleased my Dad drove, although only the once, he was pretty quick for someone in his mid 60s 8) I felt sorry for Tom Chilton who was carrying out his last ever Hot Laps in his 750bhp Nissan GTR, he went off at the slippery bit exiting Clearways, hitting the pit wall hard enough to set off airbags.
Next up is Silverstone GP on the 7th of January, question is, which car to take? :-?
A shame we won't get to race together Phil until 20/21 May at Brands, as I can't make Cadwell.
I'll try again with the video:
[youtube]S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s
I'd booked a hotel the night before at the Brands Hatch Mercure, with friend Philip and my Dad (who also drove my car). It was a good move, saving a 3am wake up call. Conditions were much like Phil experienced, ranging between damp with a drying line to wet and changing through the day. The car was great fun, no problems except a high idle, I didn't touch the settings or tyre pressures from how Gary Feakins had set the car up, I'll fiddle with these on another day.
As you mentioned Phil, the steering is rather different from what we're used to with lots of turns lock to lock. Mine has the manual rack which is apparently worse for this than the pas version?
Mention has to go to the brave souls in the nice Interlagos Blue Z4MR who not only have 450bhp with a supercharger but had also been experiencing brake issues so had disabled everything including the ABS. I had a number of tussles with them through the day which we had a good laugh about afterwards, sadly the phone didn't record a couple of times.
Tom seemed to enjoy himself, putting in some smooth laps on a track and car new to him. In fact I had to suggest a cool down lap as he didn't look like he wanted to stop
He was flying in his M Coupe once the track started to get a drier line. 8) I was pleased my Dad drove, although only the once, he was pretty quick for someone in his mid 60s 8) I felt sorry for Tom Chilton who was carrying out his last ever Hot Laps in his 750bhp Nissan GTR, he went off at the slippery bit exiting Clearways, hitting the pit wall hard enough to set off airbags.
Next up is Silverstone GP on the 7th of January, question is, which car to take? :-?
A shame we won't get to race together Phil until 20/21 May at Brands, as I can't make Cadwell.
I'll try again with the video:
[youtube]S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s
Fishy Dave said:On Sunday afternoon I made sure I loaded the trailer correctly with cj10jeeper's words of wisdom in my head. With nothing in the tow car boot and the race car a few inches further back the balance was just about right, nice and stable and the rear suspension wasn't sagging as much.
I'd booked a hotel the night before at the Brands Hatch Mercure, with friend Philip and my Dad (who also drove my car). It was a good move, saving a 3am wake up call. Conditions were much like Phil experienced, ranging between damp with a drying line to wet and changing through the day. The car was great fun, no problems except a high idle, I didn't touch the settings or tyre pressures from how Gary Feakins had set the car up, I'll fiddle with these on another day.
As you mentioned Phil, the steering is rather different from what we're used to with lots of turns lock to lock. Mine has the manual rack which is apparently worse for this than the pas version?
Mention has to go to the brave souls in the nice Interlagos Blue Z4MR who not only have 450bhp with a supercharger but had also been experiencing brake issues so had disabled everything including the ABS. I had a number of tussles with them through the day which we had a good laugh about afterwards, sadly the phone didn't record a couple of times.
Tom seemed to enjoy himself, putting in some smooth laps on a track and car new to him. In fact I had to suggest a cool down lap as he didn't look like he wanted to stop
I was pleased my Dad drove, although only the once, he was pretty quick for someone in his mid 60s 8) I felt sorry for Tom Chilton who was carrying out his last ever Hot Laps in his 750bhp Nissan GTR, he went off at the slippery bit exiting Clearways, hitting the pit wall hard enough to set off airbags.
Next up is Silverstone GP on the 7th of January, question is, which car to take? :-?
A shame we won't get to race together Phil until 20/21 May at Brands, as I can't make Cadwell.
I'll try again with the video:
[youtube]S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bb0jfyRYM&t=152s
Fantastic write up Dave!!!
Tom was all over the place in that GTR when i was there. He almost lost it in front of me and over took pretty wrecklessly down the hill out of druids.
Those gents in their supercharged must have been having to deal with some serious wheel spin as the throttle must be more of a pain with even more power. Brave indeed lol.
Shame you cant make the first meet but we will hook up for a practise day I am certain.
Looking at your fatest lap it seems I have a lot of improving to do hehe.
I was talking to Gary about being able to get more than one car on the track and he said he has done it before. I want to try my z4m and e30 back to back. Not sure what the official rules are but I assumed you are paying to be a driver so you can drive anything you like as long as you get it noise tested. So swap the session sticker between cars.
pHilli0 said:
I wouldn't go too much on lap times, the conditions were changing so much through the day and that lap had a definite drying line, many of my other times were similar to yours.
Yes, I've swapped between cars through a day before, usually they are fine with that providing you are up front and come and see the organisers when you want to swap.
Cheers, Dave