Does the Z4 require SKILL for fast drivning?
- Thread starter flashmalmö
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I was going to mention RFTs- I have had my FWD and RWD cars- toyota celica, supra was my first RWd which I was scared to take it to its limit as it was neerve wracking. I got used to it and since then I have got used to it.
Yes FWD are easy to use- my wife's honda civic is a piece of cake to drive. u dont need to concentrate. it will do whatever u want to do it. u dont need to fight it, not much fun but more relaxing on long boring drives.
RWD- they are in a different class. Its exhilirating. more fun, u got to be on top. I agree Ms steering is much better and a good feel. My previous 2.5 i with RFTs was bad too much tramlining. With the Ms NRFT its great.
Overall- More fun to drive RWD than FWD except when its icy.
Yes FWD are easy to use- my wife's honda civic is a piece of cake to drive. u dont need to concentrate. it will do whatever u want to do it. u dont need to fight it, not much fun but more relaxing on long boring drives.
RWD- they are in a different class. Its exhilirating. more fun, u got to be on top. I agree Ms steering is much better and a good feel. My previous 2.5 i with RFTs was bad too much tramlining. With the Ms NRFT its great.
Overall- More fun to drive RWD than FWD except when its icy.
I think I know what your getting at here. I came from a line of hothatches and a couple of vx220's to the z4m. Simple answer is I think that yes the z4 requires vastly more skill to get the best from. Hot hatches are so easy to get the full performance from as you are basically just pointing and squirting and fowwowing the front wheels.
The z4 takes some taming. Initially when I first got mine I thought I might have bitten off more than I could chew even having had a "proper" sportscar with potentially tricky handling. When you settle in though you'll find yourself expoiting more and more of the available performance. I have also found now that switching off the dsc makes things better as it's subtle but quite nannying.
I'm only about 3 months into owning mine and am still learning. One thing that's for certain is that you'll never see the full potential of the car on the road so I would advise a trackday or two to show you what you can get from it. Also it would be useful for getting used to rear drive if it's your first as you do not want your first oversteer moments to be happening on the road.
In my experience the key thing to remember is you are being pushed along by your rear wheels rather than pulled by the front. Driving a front engine rear drive car in the same way as you drive a hothatch will result in a mess of understeer. Learn to readjust your approach a little and get the rear end involved and you'll get the best enjoyment from your car.
The z4 takes some taming. Initially when I first got mine I thought I might have bitten off more than I could chew even having had a "proper" sportscar with potentially tricky handling. When you settle in though you'll find yourself expoiting more and more of the available performance. I have also found now that switching off the dsc makes things better as it's subtle but quite nannying.
I'm only about 3 months into owning mine and am still learning. One thing that's for certain is that you'll never see the full potential of the car on the road so I would advise a trackday or two to show you what you can get from it. Also it would be useful for getting used to rear drive if it's your first as you do not want your first oversteer moments to be happening on the road.
In my experience the key thing to remember is you are being pushed along by your rear wheels rather than pulled by the front. Driving a front engine rear drive car in the same way as you drive a hothatch will result in a mess of understeer. Learn to readjust your approach a little and get the rear end involved and you'll get the best enjoyment from your car.
Having just done an M club day at the Performance center, I can tell you RWD in general and BMWs in particular will protect you from yourself if you leave the DSC on and will let you get into as much trouble as you can handle if you take it off. On the skid pad, it's easy to put it into understeer OR oversteer with just a bit of difference on the gas. That said, the engines and brakes are excellent and you can get on them and the car won't complain. I headed up to the mountains to run the Dragon after the performance center and I can tell you 318 curves in 11 miles and I was grinning from ear to ear my coupe was so easy to drive. It's almost like the car said "finally" to getting driven like it was designed to be. 
Oh, and on the twisties, the RFTs didn't make a difference at all. The OEM Bridgestones may have stiff sidewalls, but they sure have grip.
Oh, and on the twisties, the RFTs didn't make a difference at all. The OEM Bridgestones may have stiff sidewalls, but they sure have grip.
Chris, i agree the 205 was a hoot to drive (in the dry) i had the 1.9. But in the wet i found it a handful, with snap oversteer a plenty. And sadly for me i came a cropper one night ended up smashing into a tree and nearly paying an early visit to the all mighty 
Ive had 2 RWD cars this and a Z3, although the rear can go ifind it much more controllable even in tricky conditions. But not had it full on sideways yet, will leave that for a race track
Ive had 2 RWD cars this and a Z3, although the rear can go ifind it much more controllable even in tricky conditions. But not had it full on sideways yet, will leave that for a race track
I think the Z4 is oversteery when driven right, but it takes provocation.
If you just ram lock on it understeers, or overload the fronts too fast, but most cars will understeer doing that, unless they are so agressively setup to just oversteer everywhere, which I wouldn't want at all on the road.
I think a tad less rear camber would just give you a more fluid drive, the back generally feels very grippy, you have to really tie the nose in before it will play. No bad thing for the road, but perhaps less playful than it could be. The DSC seems bulletproof so not sure why you couldn't have it more playful sooner
If you just ram lock on it understeers, or overload the fronts too fast, but most cars will understeer doing that, unless they are so agressively setup to just oversteer everywhere, which I wouldn't want at all on the road.
I think a tad less rear camber would just give you a more fluid drive, the back generally feels very grippy, you have to really tie the nose in before it will play. No bad thing for the road, but perhaps less playful than it could be. The DSC seems bulletproof so not sure why you couldn't have it more playful sooner
I've had very little in the way of understeer. If you set the car up right for a corner the z4m is IMO set up to oversteer quite heroically! My previous vx220's taught me about weight distribution as you had to shift the weight over to one side of a corner to stand a chance of getting the back out as it has no power. The same approach in the z4m totally illiminates understeer and leaves you needing the smallest jab of the accelerator to get the back to slide. If you set yourself up going into a corner with the weight evenly over the front wheels you'll just understeer even though you'll have a light rear end it's no good if you have lost grip up front. Best approach is to shift the mass to one side and the diff will help you get the power down as long as you don't loose front end grip.
It's an easy thing to get wrong especially if you have come from FWD.
Also it's worth mentioning that this tactic is very difficult to do with the dsc on as it will not allow you much throttle if it thinks you're going to slide.
It's an easy thing to get wrong especially if you have come from FWD.
Also it's worth mentioning that this tactic is very difficult to do with the dsc on as it will not allow you much throttle if it thinks you're going to slide.
shabba said:
Im not sure "sideways" has to be full opposite lock.
I've "had the back end out" on a few occasions in my 320D I had previous to buying the Z4 and it was just quarter/half a turn with crossed arms to correct.
A lot of fun.
Ive pushed the Z very hard but it just grips and grips and very rarely troubles the DSC.
The DSC tends to step in more for panic actions or just dumb driving.
If you get your braking done in a straight line, come off the brakes, turn in, then feed the power in correctly the Z4 chassis will take an awful lot before it even starts to let go.
If you start chucking the anchors out while turning hard or flooring it in 2nd with any amount of lock on then your asking for trouble.
It doesent need skilful driving, just following the main golden rules.
IMHO of course!
Liverpool
I had the Z4 back end out for 50 yards or so coming off a roundabout on Saturday, but that was due to a very greasy surface (felt oily rather than wet).
Just kept my foot where it was and the car went down the dual carriageway with the back about 20º to the left of the front
If I'd have lifted, I have had to contend with the potential for the car fishtailing into the cars next to me (that I was overtaking).
Just kept my foot where it was and the car went down the dual carriageway with the back about 20º to the left of the front
If I'd have lifted, I have had to contend with the potential for the car fishtailing into the cars next to me (that I was overtaking).He sure does know his stuff. To get the cars out of shape on the track, we had to turn off DSC and pretty much be on the skid pad with water added. Very stable cars but very different than FWD. Find yourself a deserted parking lot or a local track that lets "civilians" on and play. You'll be surprised at the effort it takes to get out of shape.
I always find I get stuck behind a string of cars all doing 50 ish then maybe get a good run of a couple miles, then more captain slow's, as for it being tricky to drive at normal road speeds say 60 ish I've never had any problems with it stepping out on the bends or whatever, only when its wet on my skinny tires will it slide a little in 2nd if you want it to on roundabouts and stuff.
If you want to see what it can do take it to TRAX at silverstone in september.
If you want to see what it can do take it to TRAX at silverstone in september.
Lucy said:
I went back in 2007 in my old smart (which I still have) we had a stand and everthing just past bridge corner on the rhs on the grass
good thing it wasnt raining or Id probably still be there, took it on track and got mullered by all but the slowest cars lool.The main shows not bad too, plenty of dolly birds to look at
I have track time in both my Z4 and my previous Z3M. The Z4 is definitely less scary. The transition to over steer (DSC is off) is gentler and letting off of the gas if you have overdone things a little is far less terrifying than the Z3m was. The snap over steer the trailing arm suspension and short wheelbase produced when the the throttle was cut abruptly was more excitement then I really wanted to experience. Regarding FWD cars, yes they do seem more benign in their handling. They will predictably under steer. You can then either slow down to tighten your line and crank in some more steering lock. All very predictable until you run out of road. But faster?
i, myself, have moved frmo a FWD to a z4. The z4 is definately more demanding as a RWD but more rewarding if driven correctly.
I have driven a mk5 gti myself with a performance chip and although it was easy to drive, i still felt it was slower when pushed to its limit. your best to try the z4 on a driver training day, open track session, motorX day to see the cars characteristics and limits with different traction control settings. i find that with full traction on, the car feels very understeery. If you do get the rear out on the z4 though, dont be disappointed if u cant get it back the first time with an open diff
I have driven a mk5 gti myself with a performance chip and although it was easy to drive, i still felt it was slower when pushed to its limit. your best to try the z4 on a driver training day, open track session, motorX day to see the cars characteristics and limits with different traction control settings. i find that with full traction on, the car feels very understeery. If you do get the rear out on the z4 though, dont be disappointed if u cant get it back the first time with an open diff