Dodgy buyer concerns

V

VinnyC

Member
So I decided to sell my Z4C a couple of weeks ago privately. I list the car and a buyer turns up. He's a young chap, very nice and polite, he's with a guy who he claims is his "dad" but looks like he's too young. They are driving an old Renault and something doesn't feel right. The young guy checks the car out - it's as I've described and I take him for a short drive. He points out a noise which I thought was normal suspension noise and he doesn't want to go far in it. I then take "dad" out who doesn't appear too bothered and only wants a short drive in it.

I'd advertised the car up for a reasonable price but they offer over £1.3K less than I'm asking. I don't need to sell but I am now worried about this noise so I give way on £150 subject to the car being fixed. They agree. I suggest a deposit by cheque but they give me £100 cash! A couple of days later he offers to buy the Ipod dock at a price that takes the car well over what I was asking for it. I ask him to let me be present when he draws out the bankers draft and ignores this saying it will be posted to him.

2 weeks on, the car has been with BMW for days. They have spent over 20 hours of work, (all under warranty). I go to collect the car and not only have BMW put a dent in the car but I drive the car 200 yards and the fault is still there!!! I think - there goes my buyer.

I ring him up to tell him the bad news and tell him his money will be in the post, the car still has the problem and BMW can't fix it, by the way, there is a dent in the car. I then can't believe what my buyer says. He says, no problem, I'll get it all fixed, just bring me the car and I'll give you the draft but the deal must be done on Saturday (when he knows I've got no way of checking the draft!!!).

I really don't need the risk of this going wrong. I think I'm just going to send his money back.

What would you do if it was your £20K of car?
 
If you feel at all uneasy about a sale, then walk away. If however he can come up with PROVABLE money for the car, then there's no issue.

If you cannot check a bankers draft, you be polite and say you would prefer payment another way. I sat outside the seller's house when buying my Z4, as we had to wait until the finance company had received the payment. Waited for around an hour or so for the money to go in (an hour had already elapsed getting back from town), and away I went with the car, when he had confirmed proof, in writing, from BMW finance, that the money was all through.

My VXR I sold for £13,000. The buyer banked with the same bank as my other half, so we did an instant transfer. Nice and easy. Always do a deal when the banks are open.
 
In addition, a dent would not put off a lot of buyers; as long as the problem is resolved.
 
The problem with cheques and bankers drafts is that they can take up to 2 weeks to 'completely' clear the system and be validated. A lot of the inter-bank validations rely on trust.

The problem in these times is that I can only think of one method of being 100% safe way in accepting large sums of money.

You can't accept cash as it might be dodgy and you'd have to look at each note to check.
You can't accept cheques/drafts as these can be forged or drawn on someone else's account fraudulently
You can't accept an electronic bank transfer (BACS/CHAPS) as these can be recovered from you in the event of them being taken out of someone's account fraudulently.

The only way I know at the moment to be 100% safe is:
  1. go with the buyer to their bank
  2. let them draw the cash out from their account in front of you (so you know the cash is genuine)
  3. take cash
  4. give keys & documents
  5. go to your bank
  6. pay the cash in to your account

This means that even if the cash is taken from an account fraudulently, there is no way for the other bank to claim it back off you as they don't know who you are anyway.
 
I can't believe I've been so stupid. He was quizzing me about whether the car just had an alarm or had a tracker as well!!

I'm going to lose the option on a great Z4MC but this is sounding too risky the more I think about it.
 
Ah, now that last bit sounds a bit questionable. I've never had anyone ask me that.

Like I said; When in doubt, walk away. It isn't worth it.
 
It could all be innocent but your gut feeling is rarely wrong. I'd honestly give this one a miss, there are still buyers out there for well priced cars.
 
I can still px against the Z4MC but the deal was not attractive before the dent and the problem history. I have had a lot of obviously scam enquiries but this one appeared so legitimate. I even left my wife alone with each of them as I took the other for a test drive.

Another point is that his first call came from a third party who was "enquiring for a friend". The buyer then turned up explaining he had lost his voice in the morning. The buyer also took a lot of interest in the V5 and thinking about it, I'm wondering if he was trying to memorise something on it to get a replacement from the DVLA. Is there any way to check if someone has applied for a replacement V5?

He also asked a lot of personal info about where I worked, where my parents were from. He asked to use the loo and was gone a while. I had left my jacket in the downstairs cloakroom with my wallet in. I told him I work away a lot.

I cannot believe I have done all of this and nearly handed my car over.
 
OK, I've got confirmation, it is a scam. I googled his name together with car scam and his name is listed on a warning site in a scam directory.
 
VinnyC said:
OK, I've got confirmation, it is a scam. I googled his name together with car scam and his name is listed on a warning site in a scam directory.
Click to expand...

might be worth posting his name on here so other members are aware of who he is.
 
What would you do if it was your £20K of car?[/quote]


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/safety_and_security/forged_bankers_drafts.jsp Some reasonable advice on this website. Have you reported this to the local boys in blue? Any reports and information will help them catch up with these b....tards and prevent someone else being subject to their fraud.

Just a thought if you do advertise privately and get a buyer round why not take a photograph of them - a genuine buyer won't mind.
 
You need to post up all of the details, as he will no doubt try to do this to other people, and I certainly have never heard of it!

It's things like this that make you think "I may as well lose a bit of money and sell to a dealer!"
 
Having slept on this, I still think this could be genuine as all of the "evidence" is circumstantial however if a deal looks too good - it usually is.

To help others not get caught out here is the advice I would give.

When a buyer phones, take their name and landline number
Ask how many of them are coming, if there are 2, don't agree to see them on your own
Never leave the keys or the documents when they come to view (common sense but easily forgotten)
When taking a deposit, take a cheque with bankers card to no more than the card value
Insist on proof of ID and take a photo of it
Don't accept payments that you have concerns over
Do a websearch on the name and the address they have given
This is the site I found. I hope this helps others
http://www.4x4web.co.uk/scamexamplesmore.html
 
How about informing the local plod and telling them that he's coming over with a potentially counterfeit banker's draft. If he's done this a few time then they might be interested in a easy collar.
 
mmm-five said:
How about informing the local plod and telling them that he's coming over with a potentially counterfeit banker's draft. If he's done this a few time then they might be interested in a easy collar.
Click to expand...

Agree, if not :exitright:
 
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