Disa, vanos & water pump marathon - NOW WITH FAULT CODES

[enuff_zed]

Evening all,

Well it's been a busy day here. As wifey's 2.5i (M54) sprang a leak from the water pump I thought I'd have a bit of a car-play day.
So between 10am and 4pm I have managed to replace the water pump, fit new belts and new thermostat, fit overhauled vanos unit and complete the X8R DISA upgrade.
All went very well, right until the end, but I'm not sure if I have an issue or not. Hoping you lot can advise me.

Started it up and the idle is lumpy. Needle jumps between 650 and 750 when warm. If you leave it idling it seems to get slightly better, but not perfect. The exhaust seems to be 'chuffing' a little.
But as soon as I touch the throttle it picks up and runs as smooth as ever.
Took it for about a 5 mile test run and already I can feel the engine seems more responsive as you press on, but still there is this idle issue.
So, from the experts out there.................is this a bedding in issue for the vanos or do have a problem?
No hissing, no air leaks round the disa valve. No split hoses. And as I say, get a bit of throttle on and its fine.

I did note that one of the pistons on the old vanos was loose as anything. Is it likely that it will take the car a while to learn about the new one?

Anyway, on a more positive note, I'd read up about the clearance issues removing the vanos unit and also knew that to remove the pump it was recommended to undo the rh side engine mount and jack the engine up about an inch or so.
So, with nothing to lose, I jacked the engine up first, then started to work from the top, vanos, then thermostat and finally pump and belts.

I am extremely happy to report that the vanos unit came straight out, no faffing about with loosening cross-members etc.
So I managed the whole job on my own.
Maybe this approach will help someone else in the future.

Oh and in case anyone thinks I worked quick, I should point out I had the fully refurbished vanos from McTyke to simply swap in.
When time allows I will overhaul my old one and offer it back to the forum as it makes the job so much easier on the day.

A big thank you to Stuart (bigwinn) who sent me his mobile number in case I got stuck. And when I finally did text to ask about this idle issue he replied in seconds. Throughout the day I knew he'd be there to ask if I got stuck, which gives a lot more confidence to dive into a new job.

 

[Chris_D]

Try cleaning your ICV. That would have been a contingent move seeing as you were poking around the DISA.
Could also be your ccv on the way out. There's a membrane in the main filter that can rupture. The pipes can also clog up and cause a pressure imbalance.
But a simple first step is to unplug your MAF to see if there's any noticable difference when idling. If there is it could be your MAF on the way out.
ALways a good start to scan for codes.
Good luck!

 

[enuff_zed]

Cheers Chris. Dammit, I thought I'd covered every combination of abbreviations too.
Tbh, I left it tonight as I'd had enough and first step tomorrow is to revisit every connection I disturbed today.
If it was working right before I started it is most likely something I did.
Was kind of hoping it was something that happened as the car got used to the new vanos, but that would be too easy!

 

[Chris_D]

By the way, is that a GR4 in ur avatar pic? Does that mean you have some experience with it?

I worked for Faber Design Consultancy years ago and designed part of the munitions-handling and control-surface CAT1&3 cable routing for the Eurofighter Typhoon about 20 years ago.
Got to visit BAe Warton on a regular basis, also for quite a few test flight roll-outs, one of which went spectacularly badly resulting in a fiery aborted takeoff.
Happy days.

 

[enuff_zed]

By the way, is that a GR4 in ur avatar pic? Does that mean you have some experience with it?

That is ZA601 which I was lucky enough to get a back seat jolly in, way back in Jan 93. Norfolk to Wales in 18 minutes.
It started life as a GR1, but got a Mid Life Update to GR4.
It was the first Tonka delivered to 617 Sqn and took past in the last operational sortie by Tornado, over Syria.
My driver for the day was Sqn Ldr Hillier, who became Chief of the Air Staff, Sir Steven Hillier.

I was on 617 Sqn for 9 years (May 85 to April 94). When they moved to Lossiemouth I moved to 13 Sqn at Marham, also on Tornado.
I was an airframe/engines techie (ex-Halton apprentice, referred to as Trenchard's Brats)

Did 23 years, including the 90/91 Gulf War.
My proudest moment? Being on the 617 Sqn 50th Anniversary parade and personally meeting some of the original dams raid aircrew.

And with all that technical experience I still can't fix my bloody Z!!!

 

[Chris_D]

By the way, is that a GR4 in ur avatar pic? Does that mean you have some experience with it?

That is ZA601 which I was lucky enough to get a back seat jolly in, way back in Jan 93. Norfolk to Wales in 18 minutes.
It started life as a GR1, but got a Mid Life Update to GR4.
It was the first Tonka delivered to 617 Sqn and took past in the last operational sortie by Tornado, over Syria.
My driver for the day was Sqn Ldr Hillier, who became Chief of the Air Staff, Sir Steven Hillier.

I was on 617 Sqn for 9 years (May 85 to April 94). When they moved to Lossiemouth I moved to 13 Sqn at Marham, also on Tornado.
I was an airframe/engines techie (ex-Halton apprentice, referred to as Trenchard's Brats)

Did 23 years, including the 90/91 Gulf War.
My proudest moment? Being on the 617 Sqn 50th Anniversary parade and personally meeting some of the original dams raid aircrew.

And with all that technical experience I still can't fix my bloody Z!!!

Kewl

 

[bigwinn]

Kudos Martin for getting all these boxed off today- well done!

Trust me it was a convenient distraction from walking round London with the missus trying not to get covid

Hope you get the gremlins sorted- but you’ve done the worst of it- hope the better half appreciates the difference to performance!

Stuart

 

[enuff_zed]

Cheers Stuart,
Start this morning with checking all the plugs etc again.
Next step is see if removing that disa o-ring has any effect.
Then, as Chris suggested, Idle Control Valve.
Hopefully I'll find something!

Also going to buy a code reader, have put it off long enough!

 

[Smartbear]

Cheers Stuart,
Start this morning with checking all the plugs etc again.
Next step is see if removing that disa o-ring has any effect.
Then, as Chris suggested, Idle Control Valve.
Hopefully I'll find something!

Also going to buy a code reader, have put it off long enough!

I wouldn’t remove the o ring from the base of the disa, you’re going to get unmetered air entering the engine which the ecu will try to compensate for :?
Rob

 

[enuff_zed]

Cheers Stuart,
Start this morning with checking all the plugs etc again.
Next step is see if removing that disa o-ring has any effect.
Then, as Chris suggested, Idle Control Valve.
Hopefully I'll find something!

Also going to buy a code reader, have put it off long enough!

I wouldn’t remove the o ring from the base of the disa, you’re going to get unmetered air entering the engine which the ecu will try to compensate for :?
Rob

Well Rob, this is what kicked it all off.
The video clearly shows a seal being removed and a new one fitted. Mine never had one, but I fitted a new one and now have the idle issue.
I accept this could be totally unrelated. Was hoping someone would tell be a new vanos takes time to stabilise, but no-one has!

Some people have the O-ring, others seem not to. Very odd.
The orange inbuilt seal is still on there, intact.

I've just taken the ICV off for a clean, just in case it's coincidental.

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, so further investigation carried out.
ICV removed, found to be seized up, cleaned out, all moves properly, refitted.
Start up, idles beautifully at 1000 rpm for about 30 seconds.
As it starts to drop off warm up, it goes back to hunting again. Touch the throttle and it picks up fine. But if I rev it to around 3k then jump off the throttle, it drops so far that it stalls before it can catch itself.
Removed the o-ring seal from the disa. Makes no difference.

I have just ordered a code reader, but in the meantime, any other ideas what I may have disturbed during the vanos change that may have caused this?

Thanks all.

 

[ph001]

It does sound vanos related to me, I dont think disa can cause such problems, and anything else would seem a little too coincidental. You really need inpa on it to look at the vanos demand and set levels.

....don’t write off the settling in period by any means though, if the adaptations are at the extreme end of things it certainly can cause poor running for a while when components are replaced. Again, you could clear the adaptations with the diagnostics.

 

[enuff_zed]

It does sound vanos related to me, I dont think disa can cause such problems, and anything else would seem a little too coincidental. You really need inpa on it to look at the vanos demand and set levels.

My thoughts too. Do you think it is something that it gradually learns, or an issue. Was all running ok before I meddled with it. Typically!

To add to the diagnosis, it is not just at idle now.
Took it for a run and it pulls fine with no issues whatsoever, but pull up and let it idle and it gets lumpy.
However, if I gently increase the revs up to around 1200-1300 I can still feel it, like a slight misfire.
I have reseated the coils and checked all the connections are good.

I know the answer is 'read the codes!' but until the reader turns up I'm stuck tbh.

Beginning to wish I hadn't started, but then the water pump was leaking bad...............

 

[ph001]

It does gradually re-learn but it’s important to let the ecu use the entire map (so a few cold starts, hot starts, wide open throttle, high revs, low revs etc). The proper thing to do is reset the adaptations but I don’t think any of the generic code readers will do that.

It’s always worth checking for split hoses on the M54 if you have been moving things in that area. The concertina pipe near the afm is the classic one...

 

[enuff_zed]

Thanks, I'll give it a day or two, plus get the codes read and take it from there.
Thanks for the hose advice but I retro-fitted the sound generator a few months back, complete with a brand new hose, plus I fully inspected it again today when I did the ICV and all is good.
On the plus side, the ICV was gunked up solid so that's had a good clean.

 

[enuff_zed]

So while I wait for the code reader to arrive, here's a further little snippet to get you all thinking (assuming you care :roll: ).
I noticed when moving the car just now that the misfiring/rough idle is worse in P or N. Put it into D or R and it doesn't go away, but it is much less noticeable???
Any ideas?

 

[bigwinn]

I’m scratching my head on this one.

Why would it be better under load versus none?

It deffo didn’t do that after the DISA works? ( I know I’m clutching at straws)

Sorry bud! I think the reader may point you in the right direction.

 

[enuff_zed]

I’m scratching my head on this one.

Why would it be better under load versus none?

It deffo didn’t do that after the DISA works? ( I know I’m clutching at straws)

Sorry bud! I think the reader may point you in the right direction.

Yup, it's baffled me. Only a slight difference but it is there. Just by loading the auto box?
I'm sure it didn't do that originally when the fault occurred but tbh I may not have been paying that close attention.
Certainly frustrating to have it so close to being right.

 

[enuff_zed]

Morning all,
Well I got the code reader last night, too late to do anything.
So just been out his morning and it is showing me one code only.



Now a quick google tells me Camshaft position sensor, so when the rain stops I will initially whip that out, check it, clean the connector etc.

Anyone agree that this could cause a rough idle? It is the only code showing.

I guess it didn't like being swapped over, if that's the case.

 

[Chris_D]

Good move getting faultcodes scanned and agree on camshaft position sensor.
But cleaning the contacts and re-testing may be futile. In my experience they usually just go bad and fail and need to be replaced.
Don’t buy cheap chinese ones either because they usually either don’t work at all or go bad v quickly. Ask me how I know this! :x

Edit. I’m also surprised that’s the only code your reader has thrown up!
I usually have a raft of false-positives at any given time.
You sure it doesn’t have an option for a ‘full’ or ‘deep’ scan?