D1 or Neutral at traffic lights?

[Pondrew]

Don’t sit stationary with your foot on the brake at traffic lights, especially at night, I absolutely hate being directly behind someone stopped with their foot on the brake dazzling me, ffs, don’t be a lazy tw4t use your handbrake oke:

It’s almost as bad as rear intensity lights on when it’s raining :headbang:

It's in the highway code now (not sure if it always was). My daughter just did her theory so I learned a lot of stuff which I didn't know for the last 38 years! :lol:

 

[Marcoose]

How do these tools - the 'LFB brake'(?) - work, then?

Like any other brake pedal. You push on it, the car stops.

I’ve done several controlled emergency brakes, and a few real ones, including Thursday when a skateboarder crossed the junction without looking. It’s massively efficient, better than the regular pedal. In traffic, I’m often already resting the foot on the pedal, sometimes already adding pressure. My reaction time is cut by 1 second. That’s 45 feet. For us bikers, it’s like two fingers on the brake lever. In spirited drives, it’s like toe-heel, but better.

It took a few weeks/months to get the hang of it, but now it’s second nature. Even wifey uses at steep hills. I’ve tried the OE pedal for LFB, but the angles didn’t work with my hips. They would ache after a long drive.

It’s a pity more drivers don’t train themselves and use LFB. It’s far better than removing and re-applying the right foot.

But like with everything new …

 

[B21]

How do these tools - the 'LFB brake'(?) - work, then?

Like any other brake pedal. You push on it, the car stops.

I’ve done several controlled emergency brakes, and a few real ones, including Thursday when a skateboarder crossed the junction without looking. It’s massively efficient, better than the regular pedal. In traffic, I’m often already resting the foot on the pedal, sometimes already adding pressure. My reaction time is cut by 1 second. That’s 45 feet. For us bikers, it’s like two fingers on the brake lever. In spirited drives, it’s like toe-heel, but better.

It took a few weeks/months to get the hang of it, but now it’s second nature. Even wifey uses at steep hills. I’ve tried the OE pedal for LFB, but the angles didn’t work with my hips. They would ache after a long drive.

It’s a pity more drivers don’t train themselves and use LFB. It’s far better than removing and re-applying the right foot.

But like with everything new …

I wonder what the DSC, TCU and ECU think when they see brake and throttle being interacted at the same time ? :tumbleweed:

 

[Marcoose]

I wonder what the DSC, TCU and ECU think when they see brake and throttle being interacted at the same time ? :tumbleweed:

It’s possible both actions send the Bavarian computers in a whirlwind. From the driver seat, it’s business as usual. Heel-toe action has worked just fine with many BMW models. Ask the specialist. :fuelfire:

 

[sars]

Don’t sit stationary with your foot on the brake at traffic lights, especially at night, I absolutely hate being directly behind someone stopped with their foot on the brake dazzling me, ffs, don’t be a lazy tw4t use your handbrake oke:

It’s almost as bad as rear intensity lights on when it’s raining :headbang:

It's in the highway code now (not sure if it always was). My daughter just did her theory so I learned a lot of stuff which I didn't know for the last 38 years! :lol:

It’s rule 236 of the Highway Code, which then refers to 226, the less than 100 metres visibility rule. If it’s raining that hard on the motorway that visibility is down to 100 metres I’ll not be travelling very fast and I will have them on too. The culprits that I come across on the motorway do so when it’s a drizzle and not torrential rain.

 

[sars]

I wonder what the DSC, TCU and ECU think when they see brake and throttle being interacted at the same time ? :tumbleweed:

It’s possible both actions send the Bavarian computers in a whirlwind. From the driver seat, it’s business as usual. Heel-toe action has worked just fine with many BMW models. Ask the specialist. :fuelfire:

But you’re not left foot breaking when you heel and toe, rather your right heel is on the brake, your right toe is on the accelerator and your left foot remains on the clutch. However, as an American, you may be forgiven as three proper peddles may be an anathema to you

Using your left foot to brake is counterintuitive to anyone raised on a manual gearbox, unless you only have one foot which is the left one

 

[Pondrew]

t’s rule 236 of the Highway Code, which then refers to 226, the less than 100 metres visibility rule. If it’s raining that hard on the motorway that visibility is down to 100 metres I’ll not be travelling very fast and I will have them on too. The culprits that I come across on the motorway do so when it’s a drizzle and not torrential rain.

I was talking about the sitting with the footbrake on TBH. It mentions about being courteous to drivers behind and not dazzling them with brake lights. May have been added due to the prevalence of LED lights these days :? Not many people think about it IME, as thinking of others is not a trendy way to think in general!

 

[Marcoose]

But you’re not left foot breaking when you heel and toe, rather your right heel is on the brake, your right toe is on the accelerator and your left foot remains on the clutch. However, as an American, you may be forgiven as three proper peddles may be an anathema to you

Using your left foot to brake is counterintuitive to anyone raised on a manual gearbox, unless you only have one foot which is the left one

You seem confused, but then, you could be a Brit, so you’re forgiven.

Specialist B21 wonders what happens with the computers when you press both throttle and brake. I don’t know. But when you heel-toe, albeit opposite of your visualisation, you press both aforementioned pedals.

I grew up and passed all my permits on manuals. At the track, even with manuals, it’s not uncommon to LFB. Some bends call for that. With the DCT, I really wanted to get good at it. Not ‘specialist’, though. :lol:

 

[richg]

D if brakes are cool.

N if they are warm. I can't recall the exact reason M specialist recommended it. Potential damage to disc or pad. I have upgraded 4 Potential brembos on the front.

 

[richg]

D if brakes are cool.

N if they are warm. I can't recall the exact reason M specialist recommended it. Potential damage to disc or pad. I have upgraded 4 Potential brembos on the front.

 

[B21]

But you’re not left foot breaking when you heel and toe, rather your right heel is on the brake, your right toe is on the accelerator and your left foot remains on the clutch. However, as an American, you may be forgiven as three proper peddles may be an anathema to you

Using your left foot to brake is counterintuitive to anyone raised on a manual gearbox, unless you only have one foot which is the left one

You seem confused, but then, you could be a Brit, so you’re forgiven.

Specialist B21 wonders what happens with the computers when you press both throttle and brake. I don’t know. But when you heel-toe, albeit opposite of your visualisation, you press both aforementioned pedals.

I grew up and passed all my permits on manuals. At the track, even with manuals, it’s not uncommon to LFB. Some bends call for that. With the DCT, I really wanted to get good at it. Not ‘specialist’, though. :lol:

So how does applying the footbrake whilst using throttle help on bends?

Which sort of bends benefit from this technique?

 

[Busterboo]

On public roads, left foot braking is dangerous in manual and automatic cars, because of the possibility of braking and accelerating at the same time.

Simples.

 

[Pondrew]

I was always under the impression that left foot braking was to 'balance' the car better at the limit on a track.
Does DSC not do the same job automatically these days? :?

 

[B21]

Vague explanation of LFB (plus other brake techniques) here..

https://www.hyundai-n.com/en/media/n-zine/techniques-for-faster-smoother-braking.do

In this article it also refers to 'trail braking' which is a techique I use but nowhere as radically as they suggest on a track..

 

[B21]

I was always under the impression that left foot braking was to 'balance' the car better at the limit on a track.
Does DSC not do the same job automatically these days? :?

Hyundai have specifically modifed the N cars to cope with the concept of LFB..

The E89 for sure hasn't..there has beem much discussion on learned forums on how to re-code the DSC for track use..


As stock the DSC fitted to the E89 does a number of clever things for you..

CBC: Cornering Brake Control

CBC is an extension of ABS. CBC enhances driving stability if the brakes are applied when cornering.

Advantage: If the brakes are applied in a corner, optimum brake force distribution ensures optimum tracking stability.

When cornering, even very light braking can shift the axle-load distribution to the left or right so that driving stability is impaired. If required, CBC generates a stabilising load moment when the brakes are applied lightly outside the ABS intervention range.


EBV: Electronic brake force distribution

EBV is a component of ABS and controls the brake force distribution between the front and rear wheels.

Advantage: Regardless of the load state of the vehicle, the best possible braking distance is achieved while driving stability is maintained.

Modern vehicles have relatively large brakes on the rear axle to shorten braking distances. To prevent the rear wheels from being overbraked in certain driving situations, EBV permanently monitors slip. EBV controls rear axle slip in dependence of the front axle.


ASC: Automatic stability control

ASC prevents the wheels from spinning when the vehicle is accelerating.

Advantage: Improved traction. The vehicle remains stable.

If one of the wheels of the drive axle is on a high-grip surface and the other is on a slippery surface, the wheel tending to skid is braked.

ASC also intervenes in the engine control (to reduce the ignition angle, injection quantity, throttle valve setting).



MSR: Engine drag torque control

The drive wheels are able to lock if a lower gear is selected of load is abruptly changed on a slippery road surface.

Engine drag torque control provides protection against locking drive wheels.

Advantage: The drive wheels retain their lateral stability in overrun mode.

The wheel speed sensors tell MSR as soon as the wheels are about to lock. MSR then briefly reduces the engine's drag torque by opening the throttle slightly.


DBC: Dynamic brake control

DBC supports the driver in emergency braking situations. It does this by automatically increasing braking pressure when the brake pedal is not depressed with sufficient force.

Advantage: Shortest possible braking distances in emergency braking situations by achieving ABS regulation on all four wheels.

The brake pedal is frequently not depressed strongly enough in emergency braking situations. The ABS feedback control range is not reached (or not on all 4 wheels).



The return pump increases the brake pressure until ABS regulation is activated:

If the brake pedal is depressed quickly with insufficient pedal pressure (recognised from the signal from the brake pressure sensors)
If the brake pedal is depressed slowly and then with greater braking deceleration than necessary (recognised from the signal from the brake pressure sensors), when both front wheels have reached the ABS control threshold.
Example of a typical situation:

The traffic slows, making light braking necessary at first, but then demands as short a stopping distance as possible.


Brake Standby through pre-tensioning of the brakes in an emergency

Pre-tensioning the brakes shortens the brakes' response time.

If the accelerator pedal is rapidly released (accelerator pedal angle), the brakes are immediately pretensioned. DSC generates a low braking pressure through the “analogised” solenoid valves, without creating any measurable deceleration of the vehicle. The working clearance between the brake pads and brake disks is equalised. If the brakes are not applied within a certain time, this preliminary brake pressure is cancelled. The early pre-tensioning of the brake pads is active at road speeds greater than 70 km/h.


Fading compensation

Fading means: braking effect deteriorates as a result of high brake-disc temperatures.

If fading is detected, DSC reacts by increasing the brake pressure above that specified by the driver.

At very high brake-disc temperatures, fading compensation is indicated by the following:

General brake warning lamp lighting up yellow
Check-Control symbol in LCD display in instrument cluster lighting up yellow
DSC detects fading as follows: DSC compares the current vehicle deceleration with a nominal value based on the current brake pressure. DSC increases brake pressure until the nominal deceleration is achieved or until all wheels are subject to ABS control. The process is ended when the brake pedal is no longer depressed or when the speed drops below a certain threshold.


Thats a non exhaustive list but those that matter on fast use /track..

 

[Marcoose]

On public roads, left foot braking is dangerous in manual and automatic cars, because of the possibility of braking and accelerating at the same time.

Simples.

Source ? Data ?

 

[Marcoose]

So how does applying the footbrake whilst using throttle help on bends?

Which sort of bends benefit from this technique?

This is rather ‘feel’ than ‘right’. On a perfect day, I’m barely an average driver. Naturally.

On certain slow hairpins in 2nd, followed by long straights, sometimes I feel the car lost all momentum. I feel it takes far too long to build RPM and speed for 3rd and so on. So before the apex I gently open the throttle whilst braking to rev up the engine. It helps.

I’ve talked to drivers and coaches. Some say they either do or know others that do it. They also said I could work on my technique. I’ve tried. But I keep hitting the talent wall.

On the Fireblade –apples and oranges–, there’s a hole under 3000 RPM. There too I keep the throttle open whilst braking on certain bends.

 

[B21]

So how does applying the footbrake whilst using throttle help on bends?

Which sort of bends benefit from this technique?

This is rather ‘feel’ than ‘right’. On a perfect day, I’m barely an average driver. Naturally.

On certain slow hairpins in 2nd, followed by long straights, sometimes I feel the car lost all momentum. I feel it takes far too long to build RPM and speed for 3rd and so on. So before the apex I gently open the throttle whilst braking to rev up the engine. It helps.

I’ve talked to drivers and coaches. Some say they either do or know others that do it. They also said I could work on my technique. I’ve tried. But I keep hitting the talent wall.

On the Fireblade –apples and oranges–, there’s a hole under 3000 RPM. There too I keep the throttle open whilst braking on certain bends.

So you’re using the throttle to build boost otherwise it’s laggy?

It’s not an attempt at chassis stabilisation?

 

[Marcoose]

So how does applying the footbrake whilst using throttle help on bends?

Which sort of bends benefit from this technique?

This is rather ‘feel’ than ‘right’. On a perfect day, I’m barely an average driver. Naturally.

On certain slow hairpins in 2nd, followed by long straights, sometimes I feel the car lost all momentum. I feel it takes far too long to build RPM and speed for 3rd and so on. So before the apex I gently open the throttle whilst braking to rev up the engine. It helps.

I’ve talked to drivers and coaches. Some say they either do or know others that do it. They also said I could work on my technique. I’ve tried. But I keep hitting the talent wall.

On the Fireblade –apples and oranges–, there’s a hole under 3000 RPM. There too I keep the throttle open whilst braking on certain bends.

So you’re using the throttle to build boost otherwise it’s laggy?

It’s not an attempt at chassis stabilisation?

Yes and yes.

 

[Busterboo]

On public roads, left foot braking is dangerous in manual and automatic cars, because of the possibility of braking and accelerating at the same time.

Simples.

Source ? Data ?

Overwhelming common sense.