CV-19 day 44 / light at the end ?

[ben g]

100% it was around well before Christmas. A workmate was on a few different courses of antibiotics to try to clear his illness which had the same symptoms of covid. The doctor never managed to sort it, it just went on its own.

But it wasn't in the media back then, so no one was interested 8)

 

[ronk]

My nephew had the “lurgy” as he called it, around Christmas time. He said at the time that he was suffering the worst bout of ‘flu ever. Several of his colleagues also had it.
The first one to get it in his organisation has a Chinese girlfriend.

Might be a coincidence or might not but I’m prepared to keep an open mind.

 

[Anonymous]

It’s a great conspiracy theory...however even the Daily Mail, that well known reference source of Z4 Forum posters was stating in November 2019 that this seasons normal flu virus was going to be a lot more vicious, they quoted 8 times, and peaking much earlier..

I picked up a really vicious bug in late November coming back from Morocco..I was wiped out for most of December..

Several of my friends were similarly afflicted..

Remember there are 100s of variants of the 4 main strains of flu viruses..

Given the earliest known dates suggested for the origin it seems implausible that so many people, hundreds of thousands were effected in the UK so early..plus..even though many people did have really bad attacks, very few died, unlike with COVID-19

 

[Jamie25]

It’s a great conspiracy theory...however even the Daily Mail, that well known reference source of Z4 Forum posters was stating in November 2019 that this seasons normal flu virus was going to be a lot more vicious, they quoted 8 times, and peaking much earlier..

I picked up a really vicious bug in late November coming back from Morocco..I was wiped out for most of December..

Several of my friends were similarly afflicted..

Remember there are 100s of variants of the 4 main strains of flu viruses..

Given the earliest known dates suggested for the origin it seems implausible that so many people, hundreds of thousands were effected in the UK so early..plus..even though many people did have really bad attacks, very few died, unlike with COVID-19

 

[mr wilks]

Given the earliest known dates suggested for the origin it seems implausible that so many people, hundreds of thousands were effected in the UK so early..plus..even though many people did have really bad attacks, very few died, unlike with COVID-19

Not sure why you think its a "conspiracy theory" :? i think its pretty much been proved people died in 2019 with CV19 present & as with a majority it most likely wasn't the cause of death but was a contributor & id like to know just how you based your theory that "very few died" when the death rate figures of the ONS for the last quarter of 2019 suggest different :wink:


1.Main points
.Death registrations in Quarter 4 2019
In Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 2019, there were 129,821 deaths registered in England. This was 8,674 more deaths than Quarter 4 2018 and 6,752 more deaths than the five-year average (2014 to 2018) for this quarter. Of the deaths registered in Quarter 4 2019,

Its also been stressed by the medical experts that many who test positive for CV19 will experience only mild symptoms or even non at all so its more than plausible for forum members to have already had it .

 

[ronk]

As for relaxing restrictions and upbeat bluster from the Govt, I note that the U.K. has risen to second place today.

Deaths per million
Belgium 833.65
United Kingdom 597.51
Spain. 580.6
Italy 556.02

We are also holding second place to the USA with the overall death rates.

As for the light at the end of of the tunnel I think it’s just Govt spin doctor with a torch.

 

[exdos]

As for relaxing restrictions and upbeat bluster from the Govt, I note that the U.K. has risen to second place today.

Deaths per million
Belgium 833.65
United Kingdom 597.51
Spain. 580.6
Italy 556.02

We are also holding second place to the USA with the overall death rates.

As for the light at the end of of the tunnel I think it’s just Govt spin doctor with a torch.

If 100% of people had properly observed the voluntary Lockdown and maintained the 2 metre distancing rule when out on their daily exercise, then there would've been far fewer new cases within 1 month of Lockdown, and thereafter, with commensurately fewer deaths. Some people started to completely ignore lockdown even before VE Day and since then, more and more people have followed.

There's absolutely no way a UK government of any political persuasion could have enforced a Lockdown without there being civil disobedience of some sort. Our government has simply had to follow the way that an unruly section of Brits have behaved in order to avoid any confrontation with the public in the way that it has materialised in the US.

If there's any blame to to be dished out, blame the public.

 

[ronk]

They did allow allow two mass gatherings that I can think of !
Cheltenham Horse Racing an Liverpool Football! It’s been accepted this was a mistake and a source of a spread.

They have not got a grip on the situation - it’s Spin!
I do agree that the message has been Ignored - the unruly Brits see the example of Cummings et al.

 

[exdos]

They did allow allow two mass gatherings that I can think of !
Cheltenham Horse Racing an Liverpool Football! It’s been accepted this was a mistake and a source of a spread.

People already knew of the pandemic before the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Football match. True, the government could've prevented those gatherings from taking place, but equally, anyone who did attend had the right and opportunity to stay away. How much nannying does the public need? Is everything now always the government's or someone else's fault?

 

[john-e89]

As for relaxing restrictions and upbeat bluster from the Govt, I note that the U.K. has risen to second place today.

Deaths per million
Belgium 833.65
United Kingdom 597.51
Spain. 580.6
Italy 556.02

We are also holding second place to the USA with the overall death rates.

As for the light at the end of of the tunnel I think it’s just Govt spin doctor with a torch.

If 100% of people had properly observed the voluntary Lockdown and maintained the 2 metre distancing rule when out on their daily exercise, then there would've been far fewer new cases within 1 month of Lockdown, and thereafter, with commensurately fewer deaths. Some people started to completely ignore lockdown even before VE Day and since then, more and more people have followed.

There's absolutely no way a UK government of any political persuasion could have enforced a Lockdown without there being civil disobedience of some sort. Our government has simply had to follow the way that an unruly section of Brits have behaved in order to avoid any confrontation with the public in the way that it has materialised in the US.

If there's any blame to to be dished out, blame the public.

I could not agree more Exdos, lack of plain old common sense yet again. The govt’ are screwed, devil they do devil they don’t. What Ive found glaringly obvious in all of this is people seem to need to be told how to put one foot in front of the other, then when they’re told they go and do something completely different, then they start complaining about the outcome of that and blaming the govt’. There is only so much anyone can do, at some point people have to use some common and I’m afraid there is very little of that in many walks of life. I include some members of said govt’ in that too. But when you’re dealing with the level of utter stupidity of, I’m afraid, a LOT of people in this country you’re going round in circles.

 

[Vornwend]

Of course if 100% of people had observed the lockdown deaths would have been lower but I don't think you can primarily pin the UK's awful record on the public. The vast majority of people adhered to the guidance or at least until the government lost credibility. Of course there were idiots who chose to do different but they were a minority. I think there are 3 much bigger factors at play:

1. We were very late to implement lockdown measures v almost every other developed country. The government did not take it seriously early enough
2. The care home sector strategy and management was a huge failure - they were not shielded at the time they most needed it.
3. Our testing/PPE capability at the start was hugely inadequate (despite being told that we were better prepared than any country in the world)

The government is firmly in the frame for all of these although it might be conceded that our testing capability was a more long standing problem. The one thing they did get right was the economic measures introduced so rapidly and which undoubtedly improved the level of compliance with the stay at home messaging. Lessons have to be learnt because we could have done much, much better and our government is supposed to take the lead in protecting us - that's not a nanny state, that's their prime role.

 

[ronk]

I’ve certainly observed the regs any I guess did most others. Idiots did ignore the rules but not many fines issued!

The big sporting events allowed at the start were a mistake by the Govt - they missed an opportunity tö stop super spreading events. I think most would have accepted that.

Im afraid the Govt had its eye on other things when all this started and did not treat it seriously.

 

[john-e89]

Opinions and arguments will go on forever fine, but on a slightly different topic one thing I have found to be utterly appalling is the constant and vicious vitriol by the press at every opportunity seemingly led unashamedly by the BBC. Instead of this country sticking together in unprecedented times not seen before in the modern era these gutter crawling shits are hell bent on ripping this country apart in the name of reporting journalism and headlines. Of course we need to know what’s happening and there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing if needed but there really is no need for such vitriol, the manner in which the press go for the jugular is quite frankly revolting.

 

[Smartbear]

Opinions and arguments will go on forever fine, but on a slightly different topic one thing I have found to be utterly appalling is the constant and vicious vitriol by the press at every opportunity seemingly led unashamedly by the BBC. Instead of this country sticking together in unprecedented times not seen before in the modern era these gutter crawling shits are hell bent on ripping this country apart in the name of reporting journalism and headlines. Of course we need to know what’s happening and there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing if needed but there really is no need for such vitriol, the manner in which the press go for the jugular is quite frankly revolting.

Surely the press report matters fairly & without bias John? :roll:

Rob

 

[ph001]

I could not agree more Exdos, lack of plain old common sense yet again. The govt’ are screwed, devil they do devil they don’t. What Ive found glaringly obvious in all of this is people seem to need to be told how to put one foot in front of the other, then when they’re told they go and do something completely different, then they start complaining about the outcome of that and blaming the govt’. There is only so much anyone can do, at some point people have to use some common and I’m afraid there is very little of that in many walks of life. I include some members of said govt’ in that too. But when you’re dealing with the level of utter stupidity of, I’m afraid, a LOT of people in this country you’re going round in circles.

...absolutely spot on. Well said. It's like half the population are some kind of dumb robots that have no clue how to behave unless they are told exactly how to. It's because of this demographic that we all have to suffer unfortunately.

 

[exdos]

The government is firmly in the frame for all of these although it might be conceded that our testing capability was a more long standing problem.

There's an even bigger epidemic in our country than C-19 and that's obesity. We've had home testing for this condition for generations - a set of bathroom scales! Obesity was a relatively uncommon condition when I were a lad, but now we've got a Nanny State a good proportion of our population don't seem to bother to use the scales now. Whenever you see obese people interviewed, they always seem to blame anything and everything except themselves for the state in which they now find themselves.

Is this our government's fault too, or is it the fault of the individual for eating too much and exercising too little?

 

[ronk]

The press do the same to every party when they are in power and they have reported on the opposition lot as well, albeit not as much.
Cummings is more important at the moment as he is a rule writer (the stay at home rule writer) hence the extra media storm -Thats what happens Im afraid.
Cummings would be aware what would happen if he was found out and he took that risk as would the rest of them.

They only want to sell papers

We complain about the press but where do we get our information to formulate our opinions if not the press? - Im sure there can't be many who read Hansard.

 

[ronk]

They did allow allow two mass gatherings that I can think of !
Cheltenham Horse Racing an Liverpool Football! It’s been accepted this was a mistake and a source of a spread.

People already knew of the pandemic before the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Football match. True, the government could've prevented those gatherings from taking place, but equally, anyone who did attend had the right and opportunity to stay away. How much nannying does the public need? Is everything now always the government's or someone else's fault?

People knew of it but I don't think realised what the implications were.
Im afraid I can't see the logic of allowing 1,000 of supporters from a infection hot spot can be seen as logical nor the Cheltenham festival.
How was the public meant to formulate its opinion about these events?

I hear what you say about the nanny state - but I also heard the same complaints about Crash helmets, Seat belts and the Breathalyser. The trouble with common sense is unfortunately it's not too common.

 

[exdos]

People knew of it but I don't think realised what the implications were.
Im afraid I can't see the logic of allowing 1,000 of supporters from a infection hot spot can be seen as logical nor the Cheltenham festival.
How was the public meant to formulate its opinion about these events?

How much do people need to be told before they recognise a risk to themselves and decide to act to protect themselves, if not others as well? I'm afraid that I take the attitude of: "If you fall off that wall and break your leg, don't come running to me!"

I hear what you say about the nanny state - but I also heard the same complaints about Crash helmets, Seat belts and the Breathalyser. The trouble with common sense is that its not too common.

I've previously posted that over 50% of the population have below average intelligence, and that the average seems to be pretty low. A lot of people simply can't or won't be told and never learn.

 

[ronk]

I've previously posted that over 50% of the population have below average intelligence, and that the average seems to be pretty low. A lot of people simply can't or won't be told and never learn.

I agree with that 100% and that is why we live with the Govt making the rule for us all because they no common sense.
The recent UK demonstrations against events in the USA seem to indicate that there are people who have forgotten the social distancing message already. They will never learn:thumbsdown: